During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Eh, I liked it, mainly because I appreciate they had the brains to keep the monster in the dark were the CGI and models looked better and not have false Jump Scares every five minutes like a lot of modern horror. And Casper's actor did a pretty good performance and at least I found him menacing.
And Roy wasn't a soldier or field agent, he was an analyst, shooting people wasn't really part of his job and he had never actually had to do it before, which makes Casper mocking him for it feel a bit more heinous as it's more understandable Roy wouldn't be able to bring himself to kill another human being. And to note, the OTHER characters were just fine killing Casper if they had to (he WAS a criminal and keeping him for trial was their main job), he was just smart enough to sneak around and avoid being detected.
But to each their own, Casper's vileness is what we're judging, not the movie's quality.
edited 6th Feb '16 1:16:04 PM by Godzillawolf
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, now I'm curious, can you please at least let us know which manga?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Casper.
Okay, in that case I'll get started, I'll probably post it sometime later today.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"Casper opens the film by planting a bomb in the US embassy, right next to a little girl (who he without a doubt knows was there, as he intentionally talked to her and planted the bomb on the chair beside her) resulting in a great many deaths, which he looks back on with a chuckle as the bomb goes off."
That's enough for me. Combine that with Ungrateful Bastard, and Casper seems like an easy , film quality notwithstanding.
Wild Child
I added the Bates Motel image to the crowner. If anyone wants to vote, go here.
I should also note there's no ambiguity as to whether or not the girl died: she was holding the bomb when it went off. Which to be honest, is kind of shocking for a PG-13 film from the early 2000s.
The movie is definitely a B-Movie, but it's not Syfy Channel original movie levels.
edited 6th Feb '16 1:49:06 PM by Godzillawolf
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Holy crap I remember seeing that movie when I was a pre-teen/young teenager. 
It was before the Sharktopus era of Sy Fy, back when the channel had So Bad, It's Good monster movies, not Pull-Shit-Out-Our-Asses monster movies. But I digress.
Casper.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm fine with the Bates Motel image, but we got plenty of others. Honestly, I'm kind of partial to Moonface or Kit Nelson myself.
edited 6th Feb '16 2:00:30 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Casper
Okay now this character has already been proposed at least twice (once by me, once by another user) and was deemed to generic both times (and I admit I thought they were too generic to qualify at first to). However I think there final appearance may have been enough to push them over the edge. So please keep an open mind.
I would like to repurpose Victor Krane from Disney’s Lab Rats
Who is he: Krane is the Big Bad of the shows third season, and is an insane man with bionic powers. Initially he was the partner to Douglas Davenport (a Mad Scientist who invented the bionic technology the series runs on, Adam, Bree and Chase’s real father and the Big Bad of Season 2). Krane began financing Douglas’s experiments after Donald Davenport (Douglas older brother and Adam, Bree and Chase’s adopted father) kicked him out. In return Douglas shared his inventions; using them Krane gave himself bionic abilities and incredible powers.
What does he do: Initially he works with Douglas in his plans to kidnap Adam, Bree and Chase and brainwashing them, so that they can be used as Bionic soldiers. However when Chase manages to resist his control Krane immediately forces his siblings to try and kill him against Douglas’s wishes. Following their first attempt failing, Krane declares from now on they will only try and kill all three of them.
As time goes on, the partnership rapidly deteriorates as Douglas realises just how insane and dangerous Krane is (despite being willing to kidnap, imprison and brainwash he never wanted to kill Adam, Bree and Chase who he sees as his children). Following Douglas warning the others about him, Krane tries to kill Douglas by strangling him (Douglas predicted this and faked his death).
He then kidnaps Donald’s wife Tasha, and adopted son Leo (who’s fourteen at this point). To try and force Donald to hand over Adam, Bree and Chase he locks them in what is basically an oven, and starts to cook them alive to force Donald to put down the force field he’s using to protect Adam, Bree and Chase. Krane then teleports to their location, leaving Tasha and Leo to die; and tries to kill the kids thankfully they are saved by Douglas causing Krane to flee.
Krane later returns with a new minion S-1, and reveals their existence to the world. He then tries to kill Leo and Douglas (and Leo’s principal for simply being there) at Leo’s school, and then tracks them down to one of Krane’s old labs when they survive. Adam, Bree, Chase and Donald arrive and it breaks into an all-out brawl, Krane is defeated and imprisoned. However it’s revealed he’s improved the brainwashing process allowing him to control those who have been affected with his mind now, likewise the ending reveals that Krane has secretly bred an entire army of bionic soldiers.
In his next appearance, Krane has his army begin attacks and then break him out. By this point he’s become convinced that bionics make him and his follows superior to normal humans, so he declares war on humanity planning to create a bionic empire with himself as the dictator. Using Douglas’s technology, he brainwashes the president, and plans to activate a mass brainwashing across the world. The heroes confront him and his army, during the fight Krane critically injures Donald. Then he refuses to let any of his soldiers near Adam, Bree and Chase, wanting the personally kill them. The three of them manage to kill Krane, by supercharging their abilities and hitting him with the blast, foiling his evil scheme.
Now up to this point, while clearly pretty evil Krane seemed too generic qualify (though he does get a point in that his reason to kill the heroes was not cause they were a danger to his plans, but cause he was simply too big an egomaniac to except any rivals to his power). However it turns out that Krane’s entire bionic army were basically brainwashed Slave Mooks.
Krane grew them all in a lab (to be clear the show averts What Measure Is A Nonhuman and never suggests that being grown makes you less of a person than being born), and then experimented upon to give them bionics. To make it even worse at least some of them were apparently conscious during this process. S-1 is able to remember him experimenting upon her, and is traumatised by the memories after regaining her freewill.
Without his influence all his soldiers proved to be innocent people. But were initially left as pretty much blank slates as Krane never allowed them any form of life outside of serving him, to the point he never even gave them names. To make matters worse his entire army was composed of late teens at most (with a few them being genuine children) who he created, tortured and forced to risk there lives for his selfish goals.
Krane’s also revealed to have experimented upon Douglas’s pet dog, and programed him to kill Douglas.
Even worse it later revealed that when he was brainwashing his soldiers, Krane also secretly created a virus and implanted it in all of them so that in the event he died, all his followers would also die (that’s around a hundred or so people), purely out of Krane being such an egomaniac he would not allow them to live any life that didn’t benefit him. They all come very close to actually dying, before Douglas manages to purge the virus from all of them.
However his crowning moment of evil is his last appearance. It turns out that Krane managed to survive there last battle, but was badly damaged. However he was rebuilt by another Mad Scientist called Doctor Goa. Becoming his new partner the two formulate a much worse plan. The two manage to sneak their way onto the ship heading for Donald’s off-planet colony. Arriving he waits till Donald arrives to check up on it, taking Adam, Bree, Chase, Leo and Tasha with him.
Once their he first sabotages the base, including smashing a hole in the protective dome which will cause all the oxygen to be drained out within an hour if not fixed, all to distract the heroes, while he and Goa kidnap the colonists (there’s fifty of them) before revealing themselves. Krane discloses his plan is to use the colony as a base to build his new Bionic army from the kidnapped colonists, using Doctor Goa’s new liquid bionic formula. He also kidnaps Douglas and Tasha, but Adam, Bree, Chase and Leo manage to save everyone and escape the colony before setting it to self-destruct.
However upon the ship Goa reveals that that was only part of their plan. They also launched a special missile at the earth, which will exterminate every single person on earth, so Krane can rebuild it in his own image with Goa. Following defeating Goa, before they can deal with the Missile Krane himself attacks their ship.
He tries to blow the ship up killing everyone on board (including Goa), simply because in his own words “if I can’t have my army, I’m taking you out with them.” He’s finally killed, when Chase manages to blow up Krane’s own ship.
Heinous Standard: Now Lab Rats can be surprisingly dark. Douglas himself was initially a dangerously mad scientist, until he went through a Heel–Face Turn. However when compared with all the other serious villains Krane is still worst.
Marcus was the shows first Knight of Cerebus and was a card carrying Robotic Psychopath, however he doesn’t count due the fact it’s specifically stated he was programed to be evil.
There is also the Big Bad of Season 4, Gisele who attempts to commit genocide against all the bionic humans, simply so her bionic androids won’t have any commotion. However she doesn’t qualify as she is willingly let all the other bionic humans go, once she’s convinced they have been irreparably Brought Down to Normal, only wanting to kill the heroes.
Really the only other Villain to come close to Krane’s level is Doctor Goa who was perfectly happy to murder every single person on earth just so he could build a new world in his image. He even boasts to be just as mad as Krane if not more. However comparing them, Krane still comes out as worse as he’s simply committed more crimes than Goa.
Basically between the multiple events of human experimentation, mass slavery, disregard for the rights and lives of anyone but himself, and attempts to murder billions of innocent people Krane set the shows heinous standard.
Is he played seriously: Yes as a villain Krane was always played completely straight, any humour that came from him always came from other characters mocking him
Any redeeming Traits or Freudian excuse: Absolutely none. His entire motivation amounts to wanting more power, and being too arrogant to except any rivals to his power existing.
Conclusion: Krane initially seemed a generic villain (with plans to kill the hero and take over the world) and I can understand why he was voted down the first few times. However his more recent crimes have been much more serious.
The guy’s a brutal sadistic psychopath, who’s experimented on over a hundred people and tried to drive mankind to extinction, out of nothing but his own ego.
So what do you think, does Krane qualify now or not?
edited 6th Feb '16 2:25:38 PM by MGD107
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Jebus, that's a KIDS' show? I think Krane is a solid . If Gao returns, he may count too.
Wild Child
Krane.
Yeah, they really push the envelope at times.
Well the shows ended now, but Goa could appear in the spin off, and I agree if he does he might end up qualifying, he is the only one to come close to Krane.
edited 6th Feb '16 2:31:43 PM by MGD107
Victor Krane. I'm rather amazed someone that bad was on a Live Action Disney show.
Wild Child
Any votes on the Bates Motel image on the crowner? Also, I'll be suggesting that Star Trek image afterwards.
Why so serious?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Bates image. Didn't know Wynn Duffy was on that show.
Wild Child
If anyone wants to vote, I'd suggest they take it to the crowner page.
Why so serious?
Casper and Krane
Hell no on Norma Bates. Nowhere near even the baseline standard.
Bryce is a Zero Context Example.
Victor Krane
on Casper the Unfriendly Not-Ghost and Victor Krane.
edited 6th Feb '16 4:09:59 PM by SatoshiBakura
In that case Victor Krane. Actually this would be the third Disney Channel villain to be a CM, the other two being The Huntsman, and Vice Principal Stern.
Also just putting this out there; he almost reminds me of Albert Wesker.
edited 6th Feb '16 4:45:13 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Slave Mooks and throwing people into ovens on a Disney Channel show!? Victor Krane.
A total has-been.
Victor Krane wasn't *quite* there before, but I think this new info pushes him over the edge.
edited 6th Feb '16 4:39:54 PM by ANewMan
RIP Toriyama
to Krane in light of new info. Also, to Amon and Casper.
If the hero wasn't a total wuss, Casper would've died in the first five minutes.