During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@Demon Duck: I know, but you already gave the guy a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
when you were only a half-hour into a movie that's not even two hours long. :/ You'd be surprised how easily a movie can reveal something later on about a killer that disqualifies him/her.
Anyway, for the Perfect Assassins example. Writeup's a bit choppy but he seems like a pass.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Is that everything that happened in the first 30 minutes of the movie or everything that happened in the whole movie? If it's the former than we can't properly vote on him due to the possibility of other mitigating factors later on.
edited 25th Nov '15 5:30:14 AM by username2527
Probably everything in the movie. He wrote that post about two hours after the first one after all. for Greely.
I have to say though, I really don't see the point of mentioning that a character may or may not count as a CM in the future. It's bad enough for characters from ongoing series or upcoming works (I'm thinking about the villain from the new Star Wars movie here), but it's especially ridiculous when you've only seen the first quarter of a movie.
What's the point of that? What's to gain from saying "This character might count, but in any case we can't discuss them now because it's too soon"? Can't we just wait until we're sure, since that's what we're going to do anyway before voting?
A total has-been.
I second Tyk and Nithael's concern. We shouldn't have to be so ready to pull the proverbial trigger on villains we think might count for this trope like it's a kneejerk thing. Villains should be looked at as being villains, and once they've had their time in their respective work, then it comes time to weigh them against this trope's criteria and see if they qualify.
edited 25th Nov '15 8:08:22 AM by ANewMan
To Dr. Samuel Greely.
@username: Whole movie.
for Samuel Greely
Lizzid people!
Samuel Greely
Greely
Planeswalker
Greely.
Ok then I'll give Greely a
to Greely.
On another note, I've added Jar Jar Binks to my watch list, just in case the rumors end up being true. Who knows? We could be dealing with a diabolical mastermind worse than even Palpatine...
edited 25th Nov '15 11:42:47 AM by Scraggle
I see no harm in mentioning watchlists and things currently being watched, honestly.
- Perfect Assassins: Dr. Samuel Greely is a Psycho Psychologist who wants to test the Skinner box on humans. He started his tests on Ben Carroway, and framed Ben's mother as being involved when he's caught. After fleeing to Mexico, he starts an operation where he kidnaps children and locks them in boxes where he electrifies their sole food source and prevents them from forming any emotional attachments, turning them into human attack dogs, right down to the lack of language skills. He then sends then to assassinate people and then kill themselves. After he captures Ben, who's investigating his program, he shows him the Training from Hell that his victims go through, laughing sadistically as one gets his ass handed to him. When a subject fails, he locks them in the box again, which causes them to have trauma-induced panic attacks.
A total has-been.
Nah, Jar Jar started off a comic relief character, so if he's outed as a serious evil mastermind, he will probably end up getting a sob story and ultimately absolved of absolutely everything he ever did wrong because the "true him" is the coolest guy ever. Worked for our old pal, Tobi! 
I see no harm in mentioning watchlists and things currently being watched, honestly.
Me neither, actually.
edited 25th Nov '15 1:27:31 PM by ANewMan
@Scraggle: If you're (jokingly) watching Jar Jar Binks, I'll watch Scrappy in case he appears in Be Cool Scooby-Doo. He could end up being as horrible as the Nibiru Entity. Maybe he IS the Nibiru Entity?
Anyway the thing about Magensha is while I think he's a horrible dirty coward who would even kill his own brother, Mori still eclipses him. I really do think we need a trope for characters that while very horrible, aren't Monsters because another villain is worse. I think the reason Mokuren stacks up is because he's far more sadistic than most characters, his targets are always children/teenagers (with the exception being Mikoto, though because of her Vague Age it's hard to say, she looks older than the teenage protagonists though) and the fact he targets women and girls and has some rapey subtext with a few woman and gets off to their screams. Mokuren is so over the top you'd think he was a villain in a bad MLP fan work and yet the fact he was written by a sane individual kind of makes you fear him more.
Magensha would probably qualify in something more lighthearted but I still think a trope should be made for characters that are either not heinous enough or not explored enough.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
DDD, please add to the YMMV page. So, Mori's the big bad, then the over-the-top guy you mentioned...what about Kaima?
edited 25th Nov '15 2:32:07 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Thanks.
So do made-for-TV films go to TV or Film? Because TV has several there.
edited 25th Nov '15 2:35:10 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I crosswicked the tropes on the page to Live-Action TV.
Klavic: Well I remember at one point Scarppy attempted a demon apocalypse.
Also speaking of watchlists, I've looked at mine and it currently amounts to Theo Raeken and the Desert Wolf, Damien Dahrk, Theo Galavan, Lilita Morgan, and Julian.
edited 25th Nov '15 2:57:35 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Theo's gonna have to do a heck of a lot to be as bad as Jerome.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsMagensha seems like he may qualify.