During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Shaiapouf used to be listed.
Why was he cut?
Messenger from another dimension.
I am still highly opposed to Machine being on the list, but it has been established that we don't know much about relationship with his mother. I guess we should cut Even Bad Men Love Their Mamas thing.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Here's my thoughts on Bloefield in the pre-Craig films (![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Spectre!Bloefield btw):
So, unlike the Craig movies, I don't think there's a lot of continuity between the movies- or at least not consistent continuity (so like there was some continuity between the first few Connerys and between the Brosnan ones, etc. but not really an overall continuity in the series).
And so while you can get an overall heinousness standard from the films, I don't think you can really ascribe every action by SPECTRE to his rap sheet when looking at those films.
With this in mind, I'm not sure if Bloefield does anything in any individual film that is worse than say Goldfinger or Franz Sanchez.
Messenger from another dimension.
My point on Blofeld exactly ![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
edited 24th Nov '15 9:56:51 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
I don't think that's entirely accurate. While each film is standalone, the first 5 Bond films do follow a pretty straight continuity. For instance: the first film, Dr. No has Bond fight and kill Dr. Julius No, who reveals he is a member of SPECTRE. The second film From Russia With Love is when SPECTRE itself begins targeting James in retribution for having killed No, and is our introduction to Blofeld himself (whose face is never seen).
While Goldfinger its a self contained story, Thunderball brings the SPECTRE plot back with more of the organization seen and Blofeld appearing again at the head of the group. The villain there being Blofeld's Number Two man, Emilio Largo. You Only Live Twice has Blofeld clearly fuming over everything Bond's managed to inflict on his organization, with a pretty special hatred for him. You can also view On Her Majesty's Secret Service as a direct followup as Blofeld is the villain there, and in the film after.
Granted the continuity is muddied up by things like them just forgetting to reference the previous films. Or even worse, bringing Blofeld back in a wheelchair and neck brace to get unceremoniously killed in the intro to a film. That said, the first 5 or 7 are a clear line to one another. If Blofeld counts, it's on the strength of the first movie where he is revealed as SPECTRE's leader as his goal is to trigger a nuclear war to wipe the USSR and USA off the map
His plot in Service is also quite nasty: give him immunity from prosecution (i.e. he'd literally be above the law) or he cripples the world food supply with a super-plague.
That said I'm not sure where I want to go with him. I've seen all the SPECTRE movies but Thunderball, but it's been a while and I'm not sure I remember them well enough.
I'm going to have to agree with Hodor when it comes to Pre-Mendes era's Blofeld. I can see Lighty's point about the Connery films having a single continuity, but other villains such as Goldfinger and Sanchez perform more heinous actions than Blofeld does individually. Moreover, while Blofeld is behind Spectre, not everything they do links directly back to Blofeld. For those reasons, I think Pre-Mendes Blofeld fails the heinous standard and thus doesn't qualify. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
(Mendes!Blofeld is a clear though).
edited 24th Nov '15 10:33:49 AM by sanfranman91
Together, we are one.
I made a slight alteration to Rades at Black Clover's YMMV page, on a small error, as Rades was kicked out for the magic he used rather than disobeying orders.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cool. I requested the change for the CM page.
bobg, please put that writeup in the folder at Complete Monster Stuff. I guess with this long weekend, I might as well clean up the other MLP fanfics as well...sigh.
edited 24th Nov '15 11:07:41 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Slight tweak for Chew. BTW Lighty, thanks for getting me into this. What a strange, offbeat, hilarious, awesome comic. What's with that last image in issue 50 though? 
Anyway, a slightly-tweaked Collector entry:
- Chew: The Vampire, also known as The Collector (real name unknown), is a Serbian killer and Cibopath who harnesses the legends of vampires to become feared. In truth, The Vampire uses his Cibopath powers to absorb the powers of others, killing, butchering and eating them to gain their abilities (even relatively useless abilities); at least several dozen, and possibly more, are killed in this way. The Vampire kidnaps Tony Chu's twin sister, Toni, and attempts to gain her abilities through eating her limbs. When this fails, he furiously snaps Toni's neck. When Tony's friends attack his hideout, The Vampire attempts to slaughter them, taking great pleasure in trying himself to devour Tony's teenage daughter Olive. When he and Tony finally face off, The Vampire mocks him by saying how he will hunt down Olive and devour her. Egotistical, monstrous and cruel, the only thing driving The Vampire is his quest to become the perfect being in existence, no matter whom he has to devour.
Well, Carmilla the Series season zero is over. No C Ms this season, but Lilitia Morgan is still on my wait and see list for a potential season 3.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I just love how a completely throwaway joke makes the Collector so much worse. One of the food powers is listed as having the ability to string instruments with pasta. It has no practical application whatsoever.
And the Collector still ate him.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Not practical, but it would somehow be awesome ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
I love all the background Easter eggs. Like every 5th panel has something.
Considering how much worse Grant Ward has gotten in Season 2 and 3 of Agents of SHIELD, would it be ok now to add him to the Complete Monster listing under the show's YMMV?
A total has-been.
No. That's not how this works at all. We haven't voted Ward up as an example, nor do I think he'll ever be one since he has mitigating factors to his character than seem genuine.
Firstly, that's not how we do things.
Secondly, his arc isn't over until he's either dead or captured.
Thirdly, his Freudian Excuse is still in play.
@A New Man: Conal Cochran's motive is to bring back the darker roots of Halloween. Playing a lethal 'joke' on the kids is a bonus for him.
A total has-been.
And why does he want to bring Halloween back to it's darker roots? Does he have any sort of sufficient motivation to want that, or is he doing it just because he feels it ought to be done? If the latter, then it's pretty much For the Evulz.
More the latter. It's...not a very well defined sort of motivation. Just that he wants to bring more horror.
Anybody here seen Perfect Assassins? I'm about a half-hour in, and hoo boy, its villain is an easy so far.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Never heard of it before, but you can do an effortpost later if that's the case.
I'm starting to get the feeling that a lot of us (myself included at times) are getting way too trigger-happy with proposing new villains. I can understand accidentally proposing or mentioning someone from a movie/TV show before the two week mark, but some of us are mentioning characters from TV shows the day they air on Netflix, mentioning characters from movies that aren't out yet, or mentioning characters from TV shows even though they're still alive or their arc hasn't finished yet.
Can we wait just a little bit longer before doing this?
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Back from another vacation, with some food for thought. You know if Flame of Recca didn't have such a high heinous standard, I'd say Magensha would have a shot since he's killed many characters with a One-Hit Kill gun that rips off your flesh and scatters your bones (pretty gruesome for a shonen series) and trapped the survivors in an empty void leaving them to rot there for eternity, but we have characters like Kouran Mori who eat people and rape people. Plus he serves Mori directly, though he has his own agenda. It's a matter of whether or not rape is worse than murder. Granted, Flame of Recca has a lot of Sociopathic characters (Kurei, a man who burns people alive and has others killed for daring to betray him is considered an Anti Hero/Anti Villain and one of the nicer exampels for example) but most work directly for Kurei or Mori like Mikoto who plants a deadly poison in her victims watching them wither away into dust. I'm not saying Magensha or Mikoto meet the heinous standard as even though their targets are children and teenagers, they don't stack up to Mori at least I think so, but it was worth bringing them up so we could discuss why no one else in Recca counts.
edited 24th Nov '15 11:58:22 PM by Klavice
@Tyk: It's been almost twenty years since this flick came out.
What's the work?
Perfect Assassins is a 1998 Made-for-TV Movie about a few people investigating assassination and uncovering a conspiracy.
Who's the candidate?
Dr. Samuel Greely, the Psycho Psychologist who runs the assassin pr noogram.
What does he do?
Years back, when Ben Carroway was a child, his mother worked with Gteely at the university. Greely wanted to take the experiments of B.F. Skinner to the next level by testing them on humans, so he took Carroway and locked him into a room. Carroway could leave whenever he wanted, but the door to get out was electrified. When the university found out, Gteely framed Carroway's mom as a co-conspirator, which wasn't true. She was institutionalized, and he fled to Mexico.
He started a program where he kidnapped children and conditioned them via refusing to allow them to form any emotional attachments and electrifying the place their food comes in from to assassinate people and then kill themselves.
After capturing Carroway, he shows him the battle training ground, and laughs at one of his trainees getting his ass handed to him by the teacher.
It's revealed that subjects whom he's dissatisfied with are put back in the boxes they were conditioned in, and this causes them to have trauma-induced panic attacks.
Heinous standard?
As the Big Bad, he sets it.
Redeeming qualities?
He lets one of his trainees live after the teacher defeats him in combat, but he's planning on having the kid kill someone, and then himself, so it doesn't really mean anything.
He claims to not be proud of his experiments and that he's only doing this to prove that violence is conditional, but his gleeful laughter at the results indicates otherwise.
Final verdict?
