During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Good lord. I get the feeling he'd get along well with Fabius Bile.
Yup, Ivar is a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
. No to Scott though.
Anyone else on Danielle Atron ? I got no but no ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
. As I said the murder of Hunter's father was a big enough part of Hunter and his story that I don't think it mattered if it was onscreen or not, kind of like how Agatha Trunchbull killing her brother wasn't onscreen but had enough hold on the plot to keep her.
edited 25th Oct '14 12:09:42 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I think she sounds a mite too standard honestly.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So what entries for approved characters need to be tweaked. I hope to (finally 
) finish DND Monsters tomorrow.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
If you have any free time, could you please go to https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1404661434032419800 and vote for this
◊?
edited 25th Oct '14 1:02:49 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Danielle Atron
Lizzid people!
@ACW: The entries that Scraggle mentioned here [1]. Also the picture on Palpatine looks good.
Except don't do the Headless Knight one, since we decided that he was a parody villain.
edited 25th Oct '14 1:39:28 PM by AustinDR
Just a question about the DND sandbox, doesn't the Planscape Torment example belong there.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes, yes it does. Done.
To chime in on Breckenridge Scott...Shaoken is slightly wrong. Scott is laughing as he recalls things, but it's less evil cackling and more nervous, crazed giggling. He's a pretty obvious thumbs down, though.
on Breckinridge Scott and Atron for mostly generic villainy, solid for Ivarr Ragnarson.
Any other thoughts on these characters, particularely that Stephen King novel/film? Also, after doing more research it seems like Archie Mitchell from EastEnders is a cut on redeeming traits. The write-up fails to mention that he experiences Even Evil Has Standards when he can't bring himself to kill his granddaughter. He also helps quite a number of people post-mortem through his will.
For Euron Greyjoy from A Song of Ice and Fire, wasn't the decision on him to wait and see until The Winds of Winter was released? Someone is pretty adament to call him a Complete Monster over on Evil Uncle.
On subpages, several things: Did we decide what to do with Star Trek? I mentioned before that there's a Rurouni Kenshin page, so the two live-action movies should probably go there; I'll make that request if no one minds. Was Heralds Of Valdemar approved? Lastly, there are 6 Conan the Barbarian examples (1 Film, 3 Literature, 2 Comic Books)—not sure what the limit for new subpages is.
edited 26th Oct '14 4:57:09 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh wow, Heralds is still there? I created it way back when and then I guess I just forgot about it ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
. That can be cutlisted, unless people wanna keep it; I'm fine either way.
As for Rurouni, go ahead; just make sure it's put in the Film for works with their own pages. (Actually, I'll do that Tuesday when I submit the D & D page).
For Euron, I think we did agree on that. Complete Monster shouldn't be used on other trope pages anyway I don't think. I fixed that.
Star Trek and Conan I'm fine either way.
DND Monsters is done. I'll submit Tuesday morning.
edited 26th Oct '14 8:21:10 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Stephen King example might be a keep, but I'm not to familiar with that particular book/movie. I'm not to sure about him because by the sound of it he doesn't have much on his plate.
Also I have done a rewrite for the Darach from Teen Wolf
- Jennifer Blake from Season 3, is the Darach, a druid Serial Killer killed twelve innocent people in cold blood for power. She tried to kill Danny just because he had info that might endanger her, not to mention setting up Psychic-Assisted Suicide on four traumatized teenagers, and Boyd died partially because she insisted on maintaining her facade. Likewise, she tried to kill Lydia purely because she knew too much. She never shows the slightest remorse, but keeps on pathologically justifying herself. When Chris Argent confronts her on her murders she smiles and says that they are "sacrifices." While she has a Freudian Excuse in nearly being killed by the Alpha she once followed, it mattered not that said Alpha couldn't bring herself to do the deed, and for all her eloquent speeches that she needs to stop the Alpha Pack for the good of many she never interferes when they hurt people, which proves that she is out for revenge and her own interests.
edited 26th Oct '14 11:22:01 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So, Tuesday, unless I hear feedback, I'll dubmit D&D, request the move of the Rurouni live-action to the anime folder, and cut the Valdemar page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Did some looking into on Joe St. George, not much on him and I haven't seen the movie or read the book, but he sounds pretty bad. What got me was that he molested his daughter. Still don't know enough about him to give him a thumbs up.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I think the Darach's entry needs a bit more on the crimes and not on how her excuse doesn't count.
For Bolton:
- Bolton of the side story Memories of Sledgehammer is the most evil human encountered in series thus far. The leader of a secret order of vampire killers once employed by the Vatican, Bolton murdered his more reasonable superior to take over the group. When a journalist who knew the truth fled, Bolton had him viciously tortured and nearly murdered the man's daughter Reiko to make him talk before Seiji Hama saved her. When serving as aide to a Colombian politician, Bolton empowered Cartels to commit crimes over the country and kidnap his own employer's daughter with no intention of returning her alive. When Seiji saved her as well, Bolton had him captured and tortured by the Cartel with his limbs removed, his eye and ears gone and his skin flayed before he was recovered by the vampires and placed in the Artificial Beastman project to heal him. In the present, Bolton engineers a series of terrorist attacks with no regard for collateral damage and violently whips his best agent, his predecessor's daughter Clarissa, with intent to send her on a suicide mission to dispose of her. When he faces Hama, he finally attempts to murder the man himself, along with Reiko when she intervenes. When Clarissa fatally poisons him, Bolton uses the last moments of his life to rant about how only he has the vision to see the extermination of all who stand against his ideals and how her father was too weak to see it.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
for Scott and Atron. for Ivarr and the writeups on Bolton and the Darach.
Did we ever settle on something for Felix from Red Vs Blue, by the way?
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
So apparently J.K. Rowling is releasing a short story based on Dolores Umbridge on Halloween that specifically dives into her past. Does anyone think this could put her at risk for meeting this trope's qualifications? I personally hope we don't have to cut such a vile piece of work from this trope. 
Lizzid people!
She probably won't give Umbridge a Freudian Excuse. One of us may have to buy the short story just to be on the safe side.
edited 26th Oct '14 5:12:00 PM by AustinDR
How do I make a link to a previous post? I put up an effortpost, but I think it was overlooked.
If everyone were normal, the world would be a dull place. Like reality television.
Speaking of, I was wondering what could be a good picture for the HP subpage. Fenrir mauling Lavender would have that visceral gut-punch, but the thing is, that was only in the movie; she lives in the book. Umbridge's show trials are, as far as I can tell, generally considered the worst thing done in the series, period, but I'm not sure you could express that in images. Maybe Voldemort massacring the entire Gringotts staff?
If I can find a picture, I think Bellatrix torturing Hermione would be pretty effective.
EDIT: Got this picture of her threatening to slit Hermione's throat. Does it work? [1]
◊
edited 26th Oct '14 5:44:33 PM by FriedWarthog
Lizzid people!
Looks pretty effective. I also tried to look for some images on Umbridge's trials on the Muggle-borns, but I couldn't really find any effective images.
edited 26th Oct '14 6:14:38 PM by AustinDR
Works for me.
@ACW
"There were deaths to be accomplished there first. And he still wanted to see if he could grasp and spread someone's lungs out on the red, cracked open cage of their ribs while they remained alive, bubbling, blood-soaked. It was a hard thing to do. You needed opportunities to practice before you could do something so delicate."