During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Just to play Devil's Advocate, is Kevin really heinous enough when compared with Junior? He has the exact same resources at his disposal as Junior, and they're both Serial Killers, but Kevin's only killed six people while Junior's wracked up a body count in the triple digits. Doesn't that violate our "they must be as heinous within their scale as they can be" clause?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Good point. And I meant the Colonel 
. Though re-reading Colonel's entry, he seems to do the worst with what he has. Well, much of both was Offscreen Villainy (I think; I saw the movie when it was in theaters).
edited 20th Aug '14 3:53:19 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'd chalk that down to both pragmatism and timespan. Junior is active for at least eight years. Kevin is never stated (I'd have to recheck the chronology that some fansite put together), but it's certainly a lot less. Second, Kevin eats his victims to the last slice, which tends to take a long time before he hunts someone else. Junior will rape a little girl whenever the asshole feels up to it, which is significantly more often.
I don't think so. This is just the ones Kevin had there and then. He and Roark were dining on many, many more girls is the impression I had from the comic.
Plus then there's making Lucille watching as he made a meal of her hand.
With this new discussion, I'm also wondering if Junior's dad Senator Roark counts. He knowingly enables all of his son's crimes, purely because he wants to see a Roark becomes President of the United States one day. It'll be interesting to see where they're gonna take his expanded arc in the new movie. From the trailers it doesn't look like they expanded A Dame To Kill For, so Ava Lord will probably still fail on heinousness, but the Senator has a better shot.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I think he was cut because it was decided he cared for Jr.
I'm VERY interested to see how Ava is (haven't read the comics); Eva Green's like bare-ass naked most of the time 
What's Colonel's body count?
edited 20th Aug '14 4:43:57 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Nah, it's established Senator Roarke only cares about having a legacy not a son. Since his wife's dead and Junior's his only child, Junior's his only chance at having one (no clue why he doesn't just remarry). I personally don't think the Senator counts because I don't always see enablers as heinous as the people they enable.
Care for Junior? His whole monologue to Hartigan consists of lamenting the fact that his pedophilic son can't carry on the Roark legacy anymore due to missing some equipment as of late. And the Colonel's bodycount is probably in the dozens at least. He runs both the most prestigious Murder, Inc. in the city by himself and he kills an untold number of people for their organs for Wallenquist.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Update on Namor in New Avengers. Surprisingly, he's made a full Face–Heel Turn, joining up with Thanos to massacre the incoming Earths before they can hit 616. Not saying he counts, just that since he's clearly a "bad guy" himself now, the heinous standard probably won't be affected.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, Wallenquist is good (especially since he goes out of his way to kill). Let's see what happens with Film!Roarke (since it's the same continuity).
I think you've got them mixed up—they're different people. Herr Wallenquist is The Don of the Basin City Mob. The Colonel (real name unknown) is his field lieutenant/freelance contractor.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
You're right.
BTW, wasn't Rat King brought up awhile ago? Was that ever resolved?
Someone added In The Line Of Duty to the Live-Action TV page. The series name is actually Line of Duty. Please make this correction.
Amazing discovery
I've considered Milady de Winter and given that her actions lead to the prolonging of a war, in addition to her other acts of personal cruelty, I believe I'll vote to include her.
edited 20th Aug '14 7:36:10 PM by OccasionalExister
I'll give Milady a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
too.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Not exactly - her actions lead to the ending of a war before it can really begin. After Buckingham's assassination, England abandons its invasion plans and La Rochelle, realising it isn't going to get any backup, surrenders. The issue is that while that is why Richelieu orders her to do it, that isn't even remotely why she does choose to do it (she does it for money, revenge against Buckingham for rejecting her advances, and a licence to kill from the cardinal that'll let her murder her way through her remaining enemies in France).
What's precedent ever done for us?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
All of the remaining subpages (except Gundam) are at Anime And Manga Subpages.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Darn, my mistake. Well I'll still give her a keep vote.
As Exister and I have now watched Masque of the Red death together, I'd like to withdraw my Prospero nomination. Rewatching it, he and I both agree that his sparing the little girl is a mite 'too'' ambiguous, and Prospero is forceful enough when ordering the guards to spare her that it could be taken as giving her a chance to live.
Horrible guy, but this would result in disqualification. I will, however, vote for The Rake, I think. I think I'll agree with HT on Lord Iorweth as well. I'm fine with Uncle Johnny as well.
Points of order as well: ACW, are up to date with the submissions? did you take care of Yoh Xi-Hung's entry, and are the other recent entries submitted to the edit thread? While I'm on this one...can anyone find Xie's entry for Kil'Jaeden to submit? Can we submit Cotys as well?
Also, let's get the Kindred examples finalized. I think we're all in full concurrence on Goth counting
Lizzid people!
Cotys was already submitted.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
AFAIK we're all up to date. What to do with the remainders at Complete Monster Live Action TV? Here's Kil'Jaeden. Needs condensing.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
See the link in my sig 
edited 21st Aug '14 8:53:16 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Alrighty, which are remaining now?
Lizzid people!
Alright, here's a writeup on The Rake.
- The Rake: The Rake is a rarity among Creepypasta monsters in that, he is aware that humans are sentient, and that he has the ability to think. The Rake is known for appearing at the end of people's beds, and there was once an incident in which he mauled a young girl to death for seemingly no reason at all, other than For the Evulz. He would also purposely reveal himself to his potential victims just so that he could Mind Rape them, and he is also known for stalking his victim for the rest of their life, slowly driving them insane as a result.
UPDATE: On second thought, ignore this writeup.
edited 23rd Aug '14 9:04:08 AM by AustinDR
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Can probably pothole Mind Rape around "psychologically distress". Looks good otherwise.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The main thing with Wallenquist is that he's a Bigger Bad figure most of the time. He doesn't appear nearly enough to establish how vile he is compared to some of the most heinous ones in Basin City, and as Lightysnake said, is mostly interested in money.
edited 20th Aug '14 3:36:41 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"