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Needs Help: Homoerotic Dream

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To-do list:

  • It was decided to rename Homoerotic Dream to Awkwardly Gay Dream and make an explicit statement of a character's sexuality a requirement of the trope.
    • Clean up on-page examples.
    • Clean up wicks.

    Original post 

OP by amathieu13

What this trope is meant to cover: A supposedly straight character has an Erotic Dream about a person of the same sex/gender which induces in them a panic/ doubt about their sexuality/an LGBT Awakening. The problem is the name doesn't really indicate that and the description could be clearer on that. And the laconic is, per usual, misleading, just describing it as "A gay Erotic Dream", which raises concerns that this would be misused for when gay characters have an Erotic Dream. From the wick check:

Wicks Checked: 50

  • 100% correct - 5 (10%)
  • correct, but relies on inferring characters' sexualities - 9 (18%)
  • partially correct - missing panic/shock/sexual awakening - 3 (6%)
  • unclear (doesn't state sexuality of characters involved and too unclear to infer) - 17 (34%)
  • misuse / conflation with Erotic Dream b/c character is explicitly queer - 3 (6%)
  • ZCE - 13 (26%)

As you can see, many of the examples suffer from not being fully clear on the sexualities of the characters involved, which makes evaluating whether an example is correct a bit difficult. Obvious misuse of "queer person having an Erotic Dream" isn't that much of an issue, however the unclear section is filled with examples that, with proper context on the sexualities of those involved, may or may not fall into the misuse category or into one of the "correct" categories. An argument can be made that the category 2 and 3 should be lumped with category 1 as "correct" but even doing that leaves the wick check at correct (34%), unclear (34%), misuse (6%), and ZCE (26%).

Thoughts:

  • I think the idea is sound and there are likely enough valid examples if we add a few clarifying words to the 2nd category in particular, but the unclear section is still problematic. I think explicitly limiting this to straight people in the description and requiring examples to be clear about the sexualities of those involved would help. Obviously rewriting the laconic to more accurately describe the trope is needed too. And I think a more descriptive name could help remind people to be more specific in their example writing, re:making sure it's clear that the character is indeed straight and having an unexpected / "contrary to their own beliefs about themself" homoerotic dream.

Wick check:

Wicks Checked: 50
  • 100% correct - 5 (10%)
  • correct, but relies on inferring characters' sexualities - 9 (18%)
  • partially correct - missing panic/shock/sexual awakening - 3 (6%)
  • unclear (doesn't state sexuality of characters involved) - 17 (34%)
  • misuse / conflation with Erotic Dream - 3 (6%)
  • ZCE - 13 (26%)

     100% correct 
  • YU+ME: dream : Fiona has one in Part 1: Issue 3, causing her to fear that she might be gay, as well as worrying how Lia will feel about the dream. Ellie not so much has them as she has Sadako inflict them on her. technically a ZCE ("has one") but for wick check purposes I'm letting it slide
  • Degrassi The Next Generation Season 12 Graduates - Fiona: She had one about Holly J, which clued her into her sexuality. — same as above
  • Shortpacked!: Ethan has a dream in which the cast of The Daily Show appears before him in his apartment. When Ethan asks the cast why they're in his apartment, they explain that they're there "to help Rob Corddry make every erotic fantasy of yours come true!" The trouble is, Ethan doesn't realize he's gay yet and he wakes up startled. He decides he's had enough social commentary and should start watching porn like everyone else.
  • Avenue Q: Rod dreaming about Nicky confessing his love for him is what prompts Rod to finally accept that he is definitely gay and that he's in love with Nicky.
  • Degrassi Junior High: Caitlin got a Very Special Episode about her sexuality because she has a strange dream about her teacher Ms. Avery.

     correct, but relies on inferring characters' sexualities from context 
  • Wet Sand: Jo has one of Ian after seeing him. Realizing he's having one of him without even knowing his name comedically makes Jo think of himself as a pervert and question his sexuality. — no sexualities listed, but I can assume Jo is straight from the "question his sexuality" line
  • Nip/Tuck: The fourth season: Christian is having explicitly homosexual dreams about Sean, and later goes to therapy, where his therapist believes that the dreams are expressing his repressed sexual feelings for Sean. Sean, meanwhile, doesn't think anything of the dreams, is not freaked out (which is good, considering this is Sean we're talking about), and stays friends with Christian.
  • Bag Enders: Aragorn has several about Boromir when drugged with Elven Aphrodisiac, much to his horror.
  • But I'm a Cheerleader: Megan’s dream from the film is adapted into a Dream Ballet sequence here, which culminates in not only Megan and Graham dancing together, but all the other campers (plus Rock) paired off dancing in same-sex couples. She wakes up with her hand between her legs and is a little panicked about this development.
    Megan: OH GOD NO.
  • Tropes A to I: One of Lister's dreams after Arnold Rimmer left Red Dwarf to become the next Ace involves a kiss between Lister and Rimmer which Lister wakes up from quite shocked.
  • Please Bully Me, Miss Villainess!: Yvonne dreams about caressing and kissing Elsa immediately after accidentally having an intimate moment with her in reality — and is hugely confused by it.
  • Patience and Sarah: After meeting Sarah, Patience has a dream where her sister-in-law Martha is topless. In the dream, Patience places her mouth on Martha's bosom, which Martha encourages. It's implied that Patience has unknowingly been harboring feelings for Martha for several years.
  • YuYu Hakusho: When Yuusuke is trying to come back from the dead, but needs someone to kiss him in order to transfer a spark of life energy to "jump start" him, Kuwabara gets a dream in which he does just that. It gets better: Yusuke had to provide the dream himself (as a ghost, he could communicate through the dreams of the living, and Kuwabara is extremely susceptible. Yusuke did this to help him study for a test once). The kiss has to be from one of the three people who care about him the most — who turn out to be his mother, his not-quite-girlfriend Keiko, and Kuwabara, who was a big time Antagonist in Mourning. Yusuke was horrified, but he did it anyway. Kuwabara thought it was a hellish nightmare, kissing Yusuke's dead body.
  • Twist of Fate: Accelerator, Tsuchimikado, and Pierce Aogami eventually get these of Touma, to their disgust and horror. — technically a ZCE ("has one") but for wick check purposes I'm letting it slide

     partially correct - missing panic/shock/sexual awakening 
  • The Venture Brothers: One of the members of SPHINX comments on having one of these.
    I had an erotic dream about Henry Rollins list night, and I'm straight as an arrow!
  • Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist: Louis C.K. tells Dr. Katz about one he had, where he didn't realize it was a gay dream until he started making out with a guy.
  • Comfort Woman: After getting married and moving to the USA, Akiko has one about Induk. Interesting in that there is no other hint in the story of Akiko being attracted to women: the dream may reflect her great admiration for Induk.

     unclear (doesn't state sexuality of characters involved) 
  • Supper Smash Bros: Mishonh From God: Sara has one in the sequel involving Lucina; it is made of Squick and some Mind Screw.
  • Sandra on the Rocks: Christophe's erotic visions of Alex are actually waking fantasies, but the effects are much the same.
  • Show Me Love: Elin has one of these about Agnes the night after they kiss.
  • Ugly Americans: Mark has had a few involving Grimes and Twayne, as demonstrated in "Soulsucker."
  • Purple Pussy: Betty has one involving her and Purple.
  • Misfile:
  • High School Boy: Hyunwoo has erotic dreams about Iltak trying to seduce him.
  • Twenties: Ida B dreams of her and Hattie having sex multiple times before they actually do.
  • 30 Rock: In "Floyd," Tracy and Jenna are forced into listening to Kenneth's stories for several hours. Tracy begins to have dreams about Kenneth trying to get it on with him. Subverted with Jenna; she states her dreams about Kenneth are very "graphic." Turns out they are very detailed about them getting married and having lots of kids. Pete also has one involving Kenneth and Liz during The Stinger.
  • Love, Victor: Victor's Ferris wheel kiss dream with Benji.
  • The Fallen Gods: Subverted. Tuatha and Solvin think Flint is having one about Klar, the dragonborn guy he'd been hanging out with all day, but it's just the two of them punching each other.
  • Idol Pretender: Chinami has Erotic Dreams about both Oguri and Yuika, and he's female in both. In the first, the pair are dressed like newlyweds, Oguri picks Chinami up, and they almost kiss before the dream ends. In the latter, both are naked and Yuika buries her face in Chinami's breasts. It's debatable which is more "homoerotic", but the one about Oguri was definitely more distressing to Chinami.
  • Crimson Spell - Emotion Eater: The hot spring from "Havi Knows Everything" is a more benign one. It lulls the cast into (Homoerotic Dream) fantasies and lets them escape once they've enjoyed it enough to make the plants around the spring bloom.
  • The Comfortable Courtesan: Matt Johnson confesses to having them about Sandy.
  • Embrace of the Vampire (2013): Charlotte kisses Sarah when both are drunk, then has sex with her... Though it's then revealed to be a dream when this becomes nightmarish while Sarah becomes a vampire while she's going down on Charlotte, drinking her blood suddenly. However, then Sarah mentions the night they had together, indicating part of what happened was real, and hits on her while they're awake too.
  • Maid Sama Seika High School - Misaki: Some time after Maria Miyazono confesses her feelings to her, Misaki has a dream about several of her prospective suitors. In it, Iragashi places Usui in a cage and runs off, after which Maria comes on to her...naked. She wakes up in panic before anything happens, though.
  • Mental Picture Projector - Mystery Science Theater 3000: In the prologue skit of "Bride of the Monster", Joel hooks up a sleeping Crow to Cambot to see what Crow is dreaming about. It turns out that it's a hilariously embarrassing Homoerotic Dream involving Tom Servo in a Candy Striper outfit.

    misuse / conflation with Erotic Dream b/c the dreamer is explicitly queer themself 
  • Hacks: Ava has one about Deborah. Due to her being bisexual, this isn't that unusual, though Ava still feels uncomfortable because Deborah is her boss and straight.
  • Tropes G to L: Given the complex, flexible, and sometimes confused sexualities of most of the cast, it's not surprising that this trope is both played straight and played with every which way from time to time. For example, Yuki sometimes changes Gary's gender in her dreams in order to square her feelings for him with her self-image as lesbian, while the bisexual Matt dreams of gay sex with the straight Gary less as erotic than as a reflection of his own insecurities about Gary's sexual successes.
  • Queer Establishing Moment - Adachi and Shimamura: Adachi quickly establishes herself as a lesbian when she has a Homoerotic Dream of her and Shimamura. Shimmamura becomes more attached to Adachi as the series goes on and accepts Adachi’s feelings in Volume 6, and she becomes Adachi’s girlfriend followed by a love epiphany in Volume 8 which solidifies it.

    ZCE 

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 5th 2024 at 1:14:47 PM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#26: Oct 13th 2023 at 7:13:15 PM

i see no reason to separate "homoerotic dreams that ulimately lead to the character coming out of the closet" from "homoerotic dreams that ultimately meant nothing but comedy". If nothing else, it would be odd to be unable to tell if an example counts until the work is over so we can be sure if they ever come out as gay or not. The key point here is that the character is having gay dreams when they do not expect to be (they do not currently think of themselves as gay/bi) and that its unexpected, typically for both the character and the audience

I agree now that you've pointed it out, and the post after yours gives me the impression that such a split would result in a Ridiculously Similar Trope situation.

Edit: Replaced arrows with a quoteblock because this ended up being a pagetopper.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 13th 2023 at 9:14:09 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#27: Oct 13th 2023 at 7:39:54 PM

Tremmor - we're on the same page.

Assuming this doesn't get split, if we take the inference folder and some of the unclear folder as correct, is that enough correct examples that just a cleanup is in order? Or would we still like a rename?

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#28: Oct 13th 2023 at 9:29:25 PM

[up]Now that you mention it, it is possible that sending this to Short-Term Projects would be sufficient if there were more valid examples than previously thought.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Tremmor19 reconsidering from bunker in the everglades Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
reconsidering
#29: Oct 14th 2023 at 9:31:02 AM

maybe clean up the description a little, since it currently technically includes any erotic dreams about someone of the same gender, although the description mostly talks about this happening to a straight/currently-straight character. otherwise i am neutral on a rename

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#30: Oct 14th 2023 at 10:09:16 AM

The description or the definition? Clarifying descriptions to match the current definition doesn't require TRS; they go through this thread. However, if the definition needs to be tweaked, that does require TRS.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 14th 2023 at 12:09:49 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#31: Oct 14th 2023 at 10:54:10 AM

If this is in trope repair right now, probably better not to spread it out to multiple threads to adjust the description. Which means either adjusting here or or doing so in the improvement drive later. Aside from the phrasing of the first paragraph, I think it's already clear it's for straight characters. It's the laconic that's not matching. Which I've tweaked just now

Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#32: Oct 15th 2023 at 11:41:27 PM

Crowner? Options

  • Rename Homoerotic Dream.
  • Make explicit statement of character's sexuality a requirement of the trope.
  • Require the character having the dream to be straight (disallow LGBT Awakening examples).

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#33: Oct 16th 2023 at 4:49:08 AM

[up]I don't see a problem with those, and I don't think it would be a problem none of the options are mutually exclusive with each other.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
MyFinalEdits Officially intimidated from Parts Unknown (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Officially intimidated
#35: Oct 17th 2023 at 5:28:02 PM

Posting this comment to make public that I voted in favor of a rename. I didn't upvote or downvote any of the other options.

135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#36: Oct 30th 2023 at 9:26:11 PM

hollered for the crowner to be called because two compatible options in green have enough consensus + its been two weeks

Macron's notes
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#37: Oct 30th 2023 at 9:36:37 PM

Calling in favor of renaming and making an explicit statement of a character's sexuality a requirement of the trope.

What are our options for names?

Edit: Oh, yeah, and we might need to sandbox the revised description depending on how many changes are needed.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 30th 2023 at 1:28:46 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#38: Nov 2nd 2023 at 4:34:12 AM

Nudging because I never got an answer regarding whether we have any names ready, and because I'm not sure which previous name suggestions would fit the definition we go with (since I'm pretty sure some were for definitions we didn't go with).

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#40: Nov 2nd 2023 at 8:15:53 AM

Added the second and third ones and a couple of options that take those names and flip "Awkwardly" and "Surprisingly" around. I'll see if we can get more feedback on the first one because I'm not sure if it would work either.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 2nd 2023 at 10:17:04 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#42: Nov 4th 2023 at 2:19:19 AM

Added options with "Unexpectedly". I'll bump the ATT query.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#43: Nov 12th 2023 at 10:20:00 AM

Calling - Awkwardly Gay Dream is the new name. Unexpectedly Homoerotic Dream and Awkwardly Homoerotic Dream can be redirects.

Feel free to sandbox the revised description.

Edited by Tabs on Nov 12th 2023 at 10:21:18 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#44: Nov 13th 2023 at 12:14:37 AM

I starred the thread, updated the header, made the two redirects, and made Sandbox.Awkwardly Gay Dream for drafting the revised description. I just copied Homoerotic Dream's description as-is for now, since there are probably portions we can work with for the retool.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#45: Nov 23rd 2023 at 5:09:07 PM

Beginning wick transfers from Homoerotic Dream to Awkwardly Gay Dream, down to 141 wicks needing updates.

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#46: Nov 30th 2023 at 7:30:49 PM

I saw that the new description hasn't been worked on yet, so maybe I can look into that soon unless someone else beats me to it.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 30th 2023 at 9:31:07 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas Since: Aug, 2020
Maintenance?
#47: Jan 30th 2024 at 4:51:53 PM

Bumping. Nobody has begun reworking the description, and GastonRabbit has declined to help.

I'm back!
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#48: Jan 30th 2024 at 4:55:54 PM

I might take a shot at it when I have the chance.

back lol
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#49: Jan 30th 2024 at 6:33:35 PM

[up][up]I didn't decline to help; I simply said I haven't worked on it because I don't have any ideas for how to rewrite it and I haven't had the motivation to work on it. I didn't mention it in the PM I said that in in response to you PMing me about the sandbox, but recent health problems have also left me without the motivation for TRS work (which is why I've been less active in general).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 30th 2024 at 8:38:43 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#50: Feb 17th 2024 at 7:27:53 PM

Took a shot at rewriting the description, viewable at the bottom of the sandbox; thoughts?

back lol

Trope Repair Shop: Homerotic Dream
2nd Nov '23 8:14:20 AM

Crown Description:

Consensus was to rename Homoerotic Dream and make explicit statement of character's sexuality a requirement of the trope. What should the trope's new name be?

Total posts: 61
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