Once Original, Now Common cleanup (formerly "Seinfeld" is Unfunny)

I found this on Transformers: Revenge of The Fallen:

• Seinfeld Is Unfunny: When ROTF was released, critics hated it, but general audiences were kinder to it and even defended the movie. Now, after two sequels full of deliberate attempts to correct ROTF's flaws, the movie is far less popular with general audiences, and is much more widely hated for turning the Transformers series into the critics' favorite punching bag.

This isn't describing a work that was considered groundbreaking or innovative. This is a work that was poorly received at the time and is now critical reception has gotten harsher.

Definitely cut that.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

This one I think is completely useless:

• Most of M. Night Shyamalan's early movies count as this, in some way or another. Before his reputation as a director took a nosedive, and before a whole generation of moviegoers got their kicks by pointing out the logical flaws in his famous Mandatory Twist Endings, his movies actually did get a lot of well-deserved praise for their unconventional retellings of popular Hollywood stock plots. And before everyone knew to expect them, the Twist Endings in his movies were half of what made them popular.
  • The Sixth Sense: A supernatural horror movie that successfully masquerades as a psychological thriller for the first half, ends with a genuinely shocking Twist Ending that no one had any reason to expect, and manages to turn a ghost story into a heartwarming tale of an Intergenerational Friendship. When it came out, that was notable. But when the twist became the most well-known thing about it, many people forgot that its story actually had many other merits.
  • Unbreakable: A superhero movie that successfully hides the fact that it's about superheroes for most of its running time, makes real-world superheroes seem plausible (doing it well before the 2000s superhero movie craze started, no less), manages to turn a superhero's origin story into an understated family drama about ignored potential, and ends with another genuinely shocking Twist Ending that no one had any reason to expect. Since 2000, though, superhero movies have become such a regular attraction at the box office that many people forget what an unconventional portrayal of superheroes Unbreakable was.
  • Signs: An Alien Invasion movie that takes place almost entirely on a remote farm, manages to keep its aliens almost entirely unseen, and successfully juggles family drama and religious dilemmas with the possible extermination of humanity. For all its flaws, it truly was unlike any other sci-fi film that audiences in 2002 had ever seen. And before its many plot holes were widely spread by word of mouth, its unconventional take on the Alien Invasion was the most well-known thing about it.
  • It wasn't until The Village that the wheels started to come off the Shyamalan hype machine. It boasted strong performances and a truly suspenseful atmosphere that were widely praised at the time. However nowadays, if the film is remembered at all, it's for the widely despised mandatory twist ending. It's the last film of his to receive widespread, if highly uneven, praise, and Night's later films would be roundly mocked without even the qualifiers that The Village received.

Shyamalan is the poster child for Hype Backlash, but I don't think he qualifies for SIU. He's famous for his twist endings, but he didn't innovate those, just re-packaged them.

Personally, I say cut the whole thing. Thoughts?

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

Most people still consider The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable to be good. I haven't heard many people saying that M Night was bad from the beginning.

Edited by RustBeard on Sep 14th 2021 at 7:15:00 AM

It's not an issue of if the movies are good or not. It's if it fits the Seinfeld Is Unfunny definition of being a once innovative work that has been copied to death.

My argument is that definition as written is describing Hype Backlash, and it seems to be gushy of Shyamalan's early work and bashy of their later work. I don't think it fits the trope at all.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

I'm also not sure if it counts as Seinfeld Is Unfunny if the only person who seems to be following in Shyamalan's footsteps (at least according to those points) is Shyamalan himself. I'd say cut it.

Be kind.

Came across this in SeinfeldIsUnfunny.Music:

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• Much of the old school rap of the late 1970s and 1980s sounds quite corny nowadays. "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugar Hill Gang is almost a children's nursery rhyme and uses all the tropes that are now clichés in rap music: bragging about your sex life, about the cars you own and partying. Equally, Run–D.M.C.'s albums Run DMC, King of Rock and Raising Hell sound very clean, safe and inoffensive.
  • To be fair, they were pretty inoffensive even in the mid-'80s. A lot of the initial backlash against rap was due to its African-American roots (in fact, MTV was very hesitant to play rap videos, out of fear of alienating its predominantly white audience - hence the creation of "Yo! MTV Raps" in 1988). It wouldn't be until Gangsta Rap took off a couple years later that the genre would become controversial for its lyrical content.

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A contradictory justifying edit on top of a general example, plus it mis-pinpoints when hip-hop controversies started focusing on its lyrics (that started with the rise of dirty rap in the late 80's and the 2 Live Crew obscenity trial). Here's my attempt at a rewrite:

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• "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang is often cited as Hip-Hop's Breakthrough Hit, being the first song in the genre to achieve international mainstream attention. Its hedonistic subject matter would be particularly influential, with its bragging about material wealth, wild partying, and sexual prowess becoming hallmarks of the genre. However, while "Rapper's Delight" wasn't shockingly provocative even for its time (with its controversial nature being largely the result of its black roots), party songs in hip-hop would get exponentially raunchier over the years, forming the "dirty rap" subgenre and attracting an obscenity lawsuit by 1990. Consequently, the Sugarhill Gang's hit feels far tamer and even cliché to modern audiences.

Be kind.

I like that re-write. Narrowing it down to a singular example instead of just vaguely gesturing at alot of things is a good call IMO.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

Alright; I've incorporated the rewrite (and added an accordingly-adjusted version to YMMV.The Sugarhill Gang since it wasn't there yet).

Be kind.

This one seems kind of wonky:

• Bruce Lee's martial arts movies. Today, his fights against opponents who attack one at a time can look cliche until you remember that at the time, he was pioneering not only the tropes of the genre, but the genre itself. Enter the Dragon was The Matrix of its day.
  • Enter the Dragon stands out especially, as it was the last film Lee completed before his before his tragically untimely death and even today it holds up as one of the greatest martial arts films ever. Countless other works have used the "martial arts hero participates in an exclusive tournament on an exotic faraway island to get revenge on the Big Bad hosting it" in reference to this film's first use of the premise.
  • Not to mention: now that All Asians Know Martial Arts has become a bit of an offensive stereotype in its own right, it's easy to forget that Lee's films were once considered revolutionary for their positive portrayal of Asians. In the 1970s, very few American moviegoers had ever seen films with Asian leads who were dignified, intelligent, articulate, cultured and philosophical all at once. As a result, Lee is often cited as a major trailblazer for Asian actors in all genres, and he's credited with permanently changing Hollywood's portrayal of Asians.

I don't like the sub-bullets as its more convo on the main page. I'd like to just condense it like so:

• Bruce Lee's martial arts movies. Today, his fights against opponents who attack one at a time can look cliche until you remember that at the time, he was pioneering not only the tropes of the genre, but the genre itself. Enter the Dragon was The Matrix of its day, serving as inspiration for numerous martial arts films and even video games. Arguably he helped cement the stereotype that All Asians Know Martial Arts, which in it's day was a major step up for the predominant Yellow Peril stereotypes

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

I would replace "it's day" with "its day"

Read here:

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/its-vs-its/

"It's" is a contraction of "it is", "it has", or "it was."

"Its" is the possessive form of "it."

There are no exceptions.

For example, "It's a dog that wags its tail."

Kirby is awesome.

I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me

Regarding the Bruce Lee rewrite, I'd say it looks good.

As for the grammar thing, we do have issues on this site of some users having consistently bad grammar, to the point where there's a dedicated thread for getting help with English, so I get the feeling that Nen_desharu might've just been acting based on possible experiences with that. I don't think they meant to be patronizing, though I do agree that their lengthy explanation was unnecessary.

Be kind.

While I agree that the grammar stuff is annoying, what you said in response is quite rude. Always remember the first rule of TV Tropes—"Don't be a dick."

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Oh, how I wish that rule was betteer enforced.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”

This entry needs to be less general:

• The '50s and '60s pop in general, and Phil Spector in particular. Nowadays listeners will have trouble getting why Spector's advances in music producing were revolutionary for his time. His Wall of Sound, which went beyond the limitations of the mono-sound of his time and showcased lush, orchestrated productions, now can sound primitive and raw. Others may find the period's bands and lyrics pretty tame and conservative, when in truth they were very progressive: African-American bands with mainstream exposure was something revolutionary in a time where segregation was still in force, while lyrics about teens openly expressing their emotions brought horror to the conservative Moral Guardians of the era. Even if the '50s and '60s pop sounds outdated and may provoke chuckles in the listeners, the truth is, the sound has gigantic staying power: even after more than 50 years have passed since its heyday, songs are still being released in its style, like Meghan Trainor's "All About That Bass".

This can easily be converted into an entry about just Phil Spector, assuming he is even valid in the first place. What should be done?

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Not only is it too general, it also contradicts itself with the gushy tone of that last sentence. If I had to rewrite it, I'd do something like this:

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• Phil Spector's "Wall of Sound" went beyond the limitations of mono recording in The '50s and The '60s, showcasing lush, orchestrated production that merged the dense chamber sound of Classical Music with pop accessibility (forming the Baroque Pop genre in the process) and helped give black R&B artists mainstream exposure at the height of the Jim Crow era. Nowadays, while the Wall of Sound is still a subject for homages, Spector's original works come off as primitive and raw in the wake of newer recording technologies and techniques that allow artists to further polish and innovate upon the style.

Be kind.

I like that rewrite. It can probably be swapped in.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

Alright, just incorporated it.

Be kind.

Found on YMMV.House:

• Seinfeld Is Unfunny: Through much of 2000s and early 2010s, many of the most highly acclaimed TV shows had Anti-Hero protagonists, from Ari Gold, Chuck Bass, Logan Echolls, Tony Soprano, Walter White, Don Draper, Frank Underwood, and, of course, House himself. However, between Values Dissonance, changing cultural tastes driven by a feeling of Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy, and other Real Life factors such as the "Me Too" movement calling out (often white, heterosexual and cisgendered) men's abuse of male privilege at the expense of women, minorities and the LGBTQ, TV critics and analysts have begun casting a more critical eye at the anti-hero as a character type, with some even decrying their overuse and saturation in stories. By the later half of the 2010s, deconstructions of these characters, such as Rick Sanchez (who's the closest to House in terms of basic personality), Bojack Horseman, Marty Byrde, and Joe Goldberg, their toxic behaviors, the detrimental effects these behaviors have on their lives and the people around them, and the story forcing them to face devastating consequences, have become more commonplace, as this video by The Take sums up.

Now, it's obviously a misused example, because it's talking about these things falling out of style rather than just becoming cliche. But can it be moved elsewhere?

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I think Condemned by History might work? But that requires its examples to be retroactively considered bad, and I'm not sure if any of those Anti-Hero examples fit.

Edited by harryhenry on Sep 27th 2021 at 2:00:50 AM

It's definitely misuse, but I myself have never heard about the anti-hero facing a tremendous enough backlash to become Condemned by History. You can ask the Condemned by History cleanup thread whether or not it applies, but to say that the anti-hero as a character type is completely out of style feels hyperbolic. Glorified portrayals (or at least portrayals perceived as glorified), maybe, but not the character as a whole considering its omnipresence— which stretches back centuries (Classical Mythology, anyone?)— and the adaptability demonstrated by its use as a deconstructive tool.

Edited by bowserbros on Sep 26th 2021 at 11:22:27 AM

Be kind.

I think it's the specific type of Anti-Hero people are getting sick of, but even that's pretty questionable.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing; I sent a post on the CBH cleanup thread asking for other folks' thoughts on it, but I get the feeling that it might be too general even for that.

Be kind.

After looking over it in the CBH cleanup thread, discussion there seemed to lean in the direction of the point not applying for that trope either; I've excised it from the YMMV page accordingly.

Be kind.