Misused: Casting Gag

Total posts: [115]
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1 Berrenta21st Sep 2017 05:14:22 PM from Texas , Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Let's dance
Issues of misuse surfaced when an Image Pickin' thread started to pick an image for the page. Some suggestions fielded depict characters in roles related to their actors' past roles. The trope, on the other hand, is actually for roles with a connection to the actor's life or career.

When performing the wick check, I also came across examples that were a different type of gag (an actor was chosen as a joke, or an actor having a Punny Name). Those will be counted separate.

    Wick check ( 50 trivia pages checked) 

    Results 
Any pages with mixed results will count as one point in each appropriate field. This explains why the percentages will total over 100.

Pages with...
  • Correct use: 22/50 - 44%
  • Misuse: 25/50 - 50%
  • Insufficient context or sinkhole: 3/50 - 6%
  • Literal cases: 3/50 - 6%

I suggest we rename this to be clearer. It appears we may have a duplicate issue as well, as indicated in post 4.

edited 25th Sep '17 8:50:51 PM by Berrenta

2 bwburke9422nd Sep 2017 02:44:35 PM from Massachusetts , Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Bumbleby is canon, dammit.
Of course, we need to make sure that it doesn't overlap with Actor Allusion. An actor playing a role that references a previous role is AA, not CG.
Back to the understatements, eventually. I got a new computer, but it's having connection problems right now.
Bump. Anyone else got any suggestions for this trope?
4 TropesForever25th Sep 2017 01:07:04 AM from a Yellow Submarine
I remember this coming in the trivia thread. What exactly makes it different from Actor-Shared Background?
We're Sgt. Troper's Lonely Hearts Steamed Ham

We hope you'll enjoy our cacophony

As...foretold in a prophecy? Rhyming is hard.
5 Berrenta25th Sep 2017 08:49:55 PM from Texas , Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Let's dance
[up] Now that you bring that up... (Actually was unaware of that trope existing!)

Hmmm, not much different, really. Guess rename's off the table.

edited 25th Sep '17 8:50:04 PM by Berrenta

6 TropesForever26th Sep 2017 08:03:57 PM from a Yellow Submarine
So, would merging be a good idea?
We're Sgt. Troper's Lonely Hearts Steamed Ham

We hope you'll enjoy our cacophony

As...foretold in a prophecy? Rhyming is hard.
7 Berrenta26th Sep 2017 08:39:13 PM from Texas , Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Let's dance
We can merge it into Actor-Shared Background. The misuse can break off into something else, probably.
idea Nah, I prefer making Actor-Shared Background a subtrope to Casting Gag instead.
9 TropesForever26th Sep 2017 10:28:17 PM from a Yellow Submarine
[up]Would that be redefining Casting Gag into the general "Gag about casting"? I could get behind that.
We're Sgt. Troper's Lonely Hearts Steamed Ham

We hope you'll enjoy our cacophony

As...foretold in a prophecy? Rhyming is hard.
I would say Casting Gag is a subtrope of Actor-Shared Background where the reference is tongue-in-cheek.

Btw, the last line on Actor-Shared Background about being a subtrope of Actor Allusion makes no sense. Apparently, there happens to be quite some confusion about these similar looking trivia tropes.

edited 27th Sep '17 4:09:15 PM by eroock

11 Badger9628th Sep 2017 07:02:20 AM from Alberta, Canada , Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Rebellious Archivist
I think part of the problem may stem from the Casting Gag page literally saying "in some way mirrors or parodies his or her Real Life circumstances and/or career and other roles he or she is famous for".

It's directly contradicted further down the page by "A Casting Gag relies upon casting an actor in a role that reflects on his or her Real Life history. An Actor Allusion is any character, plot, or situation that references a previous plot or role for the actor."

Maybe simply editing out the contradiction would help?
Not all those who wander are lost.
12 TropesForever28th Sep 2017 12:50:18 PM from a Yellow Submarine
[up]It would definitely help, but the combination of the vague name and most tropers already having it in their perception of the trope would require something bigger.
We're Sgt. Troper's Lonely Hearts Steamed Ham

We hope you'll enjoy our cacophony

As...foretold in a prophecy? Rhyming is hard.
^ Yeah, I am just looking at the trivia for Get Out where Casting Gag is basically used for ironic/funny cases of Actor Allusion.
idea I think we should leave Casting Gag as is, but make it a subtrope to either Actor-Shared Background or Actor Allusion.
15 TropesForever30th Sep 2017 01:06:45 PM from a Yellow Submarine
[up]But it and Actor-Shared Background are nearly identical.
We're Sgt. Troper's Lonely Hearts Steamed Ham

We hope you'll enjoy our cacophony

As...foretold in a prophecy? Rhyming is hard.
^^ We are struggling here to place Casting Gag. There are different definitions out there and the most popular one would mean misuse on a bigger scale (see wickcheck OP). So we should to do something about it.

Just noticed that Meta Casting has following definitions:
  • Casting Gag: Using an actor's history with another actor or an older franchise incarnation.
  • Actor Allusion: A nod to other roles an actor played

I don't think that's a meaningful distinction and only leads to confusion. In fact, a good portion of examples on Meta Casting could go onto Casting Gag if it was just defined as "role parallels actor's RL history". Also, the trope name Casting Gag is really not helping as it makes the trope appear broader than it actually is. Merge with Actor-Shared Background may be an option but even that name is too ambivalent to go along with. Perhaps something like Role Imitates Life.

edited 30th Sep '17 6:18:49 PM by eroock

idea We'll have to do something other than merging Casting Gag with another trope...
18 Berrenta2nd Oct 2017 08:02:34 PM from Texas , Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Let's dance
[up] ...like what? If you think there's a better idea, why not share it so we can discuss it?
idea We can just rewrite Casting Gag to distinguish it more from Actor-Shared Background and remove misused examples.
20 TropesForever3rd Oct 2017 09:53:56 PM from a Yellow Submarine
Distinguish in what way? I think the general "Gag involving casting" with Actor Allusion and Actor-Shared Background as subtropes is the best course of action if we're not just going to cut it.
We're Sgt. Troper's Lonely Hearts Steamed Ham

We hope you'll enjoy our cacophony

As...foretold in a prophecy? Rhyming is hard.
[up] Good idea—let's make Actor Allusion and Actor-Shared Background subtropes of Casting Gag.
22 Berrenta5th Oct 2017 09:35:21 PM from Texas , Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Let's dance
Not a bad idea. [tup]
^^ Then you need to redefine (and probably rename) Casting Gag in order to make it broad enough to cover Actor Allusion. I think we have Meta Casting as a supertrope which we can use as a reference to properly place Casting Gag and Actor Allusion.
24 TropesForever6th Oct 2017 01:00:46 PM from a Yellow Submarine
I think "An actor was chosen as a joke, or an actor having a Punny Name" could work as the definition of Casting Gag.
We're Sgt. Troper's Lonely Hearts Steamed Ham

We hope you'll enjoy our cacophony

As...foretold in a prophecy? Rhyming is hard.
Then we can't use it as a supertrope to AA or ASB.

Also, the line between considering a casting decision funny/ironic or not can be blurry. Isn't this just replacing one ambiguous definition by another? Take this example from The Force Unleashed:
  • Darth Vader is voiced by Matt Sloan, who played him in the web comedy Chad Vader. This is even lampshaded in an achievement/trophy unlocked by killing 12 stormtroopers called "Worst Day-Shift Manager Ever," referencing Vader's job in the aforementioned comedy.
    • Is this funny enough to count as CG or does it remain an AA?

I had look at a couple of Trivia pages and most examples of AA and CG are interchangeable, coming in the form of:
  • It's not the first time actor X is doing Y (with Y hyperlinking the previous work)
As a lumper I down with merging AA with CG (regardless if ironic or not, intentional or not, conceived during casting or later) for references to previous roles of the (voice) actor. And for RL references there are a couple of specific tropes on Meta Casting to pick from.

edited 7th Oct '17 3:28:20 AM by eroock

Single Proposition: Casting Gag
8th Dec '17 10:34:41 AM
Vote up for yes, down for no.
At issue:

Total posts: 115
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1506039262085437400&page=1