Ambiguous Name: The Kingdom

I highly doubt that will be a problem, and we can head off any minor issues with a line in the description like you suggested.

That just makes it seem like sarcasm quotes, a fake good kingdom.

Then without the 'the'?

I don't see how that would help. The problem is the quotes around the word "good."

Anyway, I made an alt-names crowner, and included your suggestions even though I disagree with them. Of course, people can add more options if they think of them.

Well not sure we should use any of them now, especially if The Good Kingdom is going to push religious connotations onto the trope where there shouldnt be.

When I search for "the good kingdom" on Google, the first two hits I get are our articles, The Kingdom, and The Good King. It does seem to be occasionally used to refer to the kingdom of heaven, but that seems to be a pretty rare usage overall. (There's also references to Immanuel Kant, discussing actual kingdoms, and to Hinduism, on the first page of results; I don't think any of them are particularly significant.)

Eta: at the top of the page of Google results, it says, "About 8,630 results". That's literally nothing, as far as common phrases go.

edited 14th Oct '17 1:15:40 PM by Xtifr

I think the difference between using quotes or not is pretty much the same as the difference between Nice Guy and "Nice" Guy.

The Good Kingdom is the only option in the green at 9 to 2. Is that enough to call?

Probably, though I think The Kingdom gets most of the misuse from "system of government"/"ruled by a king", and changing to The Good Kingdom isn't going to do much to fix that.

The phrase "The Good Kingdom" would make less sense to use as a verbal tic like some of the ZC Es in the wick check use "The Kingdom," but I can still see it being misused too. Would "nation" be a viable change? Like The Good Nation or Nation Of Good. Alternatively, Kingdom Of Good wouldn't be so easy to use as a verbal tic, but it risks the problem of being confused with Kingdom Of God (not to mention the possibility of typos messing it up).

Over 24 of the 50 wicks checked use it in a Pot Hole. Usually the words covering the link is kingdom or the name of the nation, which I doubt will change by adding "Good" to the name. This is why I said a stronger definition/description of the trope should be chosen before the rename.

We skipped over that and the crowner is fairly definite about wanting The Good Kingdom.

Isn't it being an actual kingdom important to the trope? Meaning, "nation" is much wider than what it's supposed to be.

I'm uncertain.

If correct, then many of the on-page examples are wrong for failing to be actual kingdoms.

Bump. Looks like we're almost ready to transfer the trope over to The Good Kingdom and start cleanup. As far as I can tell, the last question is just that one.

In my opinion, the trope does need to be a kingdom, or at the very least a monarchy. I suppose an empire could theoretically count (one definition of the word emperor is just "king of kings"), but I've never seen one.

You claim to be fixing The Kingdom page and didn't mention Matt Taven once? Clearly there is a Kingdom conspiracy!

Anyone else?

How about "feudal"? I could see, for example, a Duchy qualifying.

The crowner should be called.

So is this a counterpart to The Empire?

To some extent perhaps. The empire trope seems to generally be evil (granted, world domination seems to be a key part of it according to its description).

FWIW, my impression of The Kingdom and The Empire's respective intended definitions (which is partly informed by discussion with other tropers in the Playing With feedback thread) is as follows:

• The (Good) Kingdom: A country ruled by a morally decent monarchy; typically a force of good in the setting's politics, at worst a Heroic Neutral entity.

• The Empire: A country that has expansionist ambitions; typically militaristic and often evil (or at least, non-heroic), but can be a Hegemonic Empire, and some examples do subvert the expectation of it being evil (case in point: the Abh from Crest Of The Stars). Doesn't actually have to be a monarchy; it can very well be a People's Republic of Tyranny, for example.

Incidentally, this paragraph in The Empire's description will probably need extensive overhaul.

edited 16th Jan '18 5:48:32 AM by MarqFJA

So, now that its been moved to The Good Kingdom, the indexes that point to The Kingdom should be corrected, right?

Also have a wick from The Kingdom to The Good Kingdom?

The indexes that may need fixing are:

• Princess Tropes
• Fictional Culture and Nation Tropes
• Royalty and Nobility Tropes
• Image Source.Arts
• Settings

All The Kingdom is now is a disambiguation page, so yep.

Did that, now there are 591 wicks that need to be moved.

Whoops, completely forgot about this thread.

Got the A wicks. I'll try to do one letter a day, but any help would be appreciated. Most of the wicks are ZCEs, so it's not hard.