YMMV/PokemonAnime clean-up

That would be appreciated. I think I'll do a write of this too

• Base Breaker: Paul. Some fans hate him, seeing him as a Creator's Pet and an accurate representation for "Stop Having Fun" Guys and Munchkins, as well as a Karma Houdini. Others took a liking to him because he is a Strawman so Anvilicious that it's hard to seriously see him as such an accurate representation of competitive players, or are sympathetic to Paul because of the few things that are accurate to said players and his criticisms of Ash (usually considered an Idiot Hero), a ship with Dawn also contributes to his popularity.

edited 18th Aug '15 12:24:36 PM by MorningStar1337

That looks like a good write-up summarizing his like and dislike.

Here there be rewrites.

• Dork Age:
  • The Johto seasons: The Johto Journeys, Johto League Champions, and Master Quest. They have an absurd amount of Filler (nearly half of the 167 episodes) that spaced out the time between Gym fights too much, the main cast got Flanderized, and focus on Brock, Misty, and the Team Rocket Trio was lessened.
  • Black and White and its subsequent seasons. The writers pushed the Reset Button on Ash in such a way that his Idiot Hero qualities got highlighted in a negative manner that contradicted his experienced Diamond and Pearl personality, many highly questionable narrative decisions were made like making the new rival Trip beat Ash's Pikachu in battle with an inexperienced Snivy, the Plasma story arc from the games didn't get involved as the anime advertised until after the Tournament Arc was over, and there was some Ending Fatigue caused by said Plasma story arc combined with a Filler Arc created to stall until Pokémon X and Y were released.

edited 19th Aug '15 9:29:40 PM by Karxrida

Well?

eh, it's okay

For the first Draco in Leather Pants entry:

• Paul is easily the biggest Jerkass among Ash's rivals, releasing any Pokemon that don't meet his standards, insulting Ash at any given opportunity and acting cold toward everyone else he meets, and most notably having his entire team gang up on his Chimchar in an effort to force it into activating its Blaze ability (which is unusually powerful) and then rage-quitting on it and releasing it, effectively abandoning it out of disgust (everything that happened that day and the night before really soured Ash's opinion of Paul). Despite his jerkassery, he has a sizable fanbase that willing to ship him with Dawn.

edited 27th Aug '15 9:27:13 PM by VeryMelon

Mention that he often gets shipped with Dawn and it'll be good.

Wouldn't that be redundant with his Base Breaker entry?

Some redundancy is allowed. It's just throwaway line meant to illustrate how the fandom treats him, it should be fine.

Fine, not worth an argument over.

So this is what we have for this slate.

• Dork Age:
  • The Johto seasons: The Johto Journeys, Johto League Champions, and Master Quest. They have an absurd amount of Filler (nearly half of the 167 episodes) that spaced out the time between Gym fights too much, the main cast got Flanderized, and focus on Brock, Misty, and the Team Rocket Trio was lessened.
  • Black and White and its subsequent seasons. The writers pushed the Reset Button on Ash in such a way that his Idiot Hero qualities got highlighted in a negative manner that contradicted his experienced Diamond and Pearl personality, many highly questionable narrative decisions were made like making the new rival Trip beat Ash's Pikachu in battle with an inexperienced Snivy, the Plasma story arc from the games didn't get involved as the anime advertised until after the Tournament Arc was over, and there was some Ending Fatigue caused by said Plasma story arc combined with a Filler Arc created to stall until Pokémon X and Y were released.
• Draco in Leather Pants:
  • Jessie, James, and Meowth. Though they're not without their sympathetic qualities, many fans ignore their clearly unsympathetic actions, like trying to steal a 10 year old's best friend, trying to kill people who get in their way, harming Pokemon who've pissed them off (the Squirtle Squad and the Scythers who gave Jessie a new haircut being notable examples), trying to kill a 10 year old on several occasions, etc.
  • Paul is easily the biggest Jerkass among Ash's rivals, releasing any Pokemon that don't meet his standards, insulting Ash at any given opportunity and acting cold toward everyone else he meets, and most notably having his entire team gang up on his Chimchar in an effort to force it into activating its Blaze ability (which is unusually powerful) and then rage-quitting on it and releasing it, effectively abandoning it out of disgust (everything that happened that day and the night before really soured Ash's opinion of Paul). Despite his jerkassery, he has a sizable fanbase that are willing to ship him with Dawn.

And Morningstar's Base Breaker entry.

We good?

edited 28th Aug '15 10:03:58 PM by Karxrida

Yeah.

Going to give it until tomorrow before I make the changes. I want to make sure anybody who wants to disagree has said their piece if they need to.

Made the changes with some slight editing of Morningstar's post (had to remove the Creator's Pet mention because it requires being a Scrappy to qualify). Here's the new stuff.

• Ear Worm: Listed in a separate subpage here. Fine.
• Ending Fatigue: The quick pace of the Unova season ultimately resulted in the last 5 months prior to the release of the Gen VI games having an Orange Islands/Battle Frontier-style round of pure, aimless island-hopping filler, only without a pseudo-tournament like those arcs had. The subsequent ratings drop show the extent of the wear and tear. Fine.
• Ensemble Dark Horse: Enough to have a dedicated page (shared with the rest of the franchise). Fine.
• Epileptic Trees:
  • A very large number of people think Giovanni is Ash's father. Same with Professor Oak and Silver from Chronicles, though this is a hugely divisive topic in fandom. The camps are very, very....present, and get kind of strange. Split off into separate entries.
    • Pokémon Live! makes nods to Delia's speculated relationships with both Giovanni and Professor Oak, and in an earlier draft of the show Giovanni was Ash's father. Natter, just delete it.
  • On a similar note, there are those who speculate that Brandon is Paul and Reggie's father. I think it needs a better explanation? I don't know.
  • WHO were the other two Pallet Trainers? Fan theories range from Red to Damian and everything in between. Don't know whether to keep or toss due to having some grounding in reality.
  • In Canon, Sir Aaron and Ash just have 'similar aura'. Many fans believe they are related. A little too grounded in reality to keep.
• Evil Is Cool/Love to Hate: Pokémon Hunter J. While clearly one of the worst human beings in the show, she's got plenty of Rule of Cool going for her and happens to be pretty damn effective in a show that is starved for competent characters. Remove the trope slashing and it should be fine.
• Evil Is Sexy: Jessie and James (back when they could actually be considered competent anyways), Cassidy, Butch, Harley, Paul, Hunter J, Team Galactic's Saturn, Mars and Jupiter and then some. Even Giovanni. These are all Zero Context Examples.
• Family-Unfriendly Aesop: Paul's abuse of his Pokémon later gets downplayed as simply being "a different training style" than Ash, and that Ash should learn to respect their differences. Fine.

edited 3rd Sep '15 8:10:21 PM by Karxrida

I'm all for cutting the Evil Is Sexy example

Yeah I'd rather cut the Evil Is Sexy entry.

As for why I think the Evil Is Sexy example should be cut

• General lack of fanservice
• Giovanni might get a pass, but only because of Meowth's fantasies
• Paul does not count as a villain
• Team Galactic might also get a pass but it might re redundant with D&P's own page
• J? I question the mental stability of anything thinking she is hot.
• Most of these characters are rather modesly designed (bar Jessie's midriff, but that alone does nt count considering TR's usual Inefective Sympathetic Villain portrayal)

edited 2nd Sep '15 1:03:29 PM by MorningStar1337

I can see J and Giovanni being salvageable. I can see why people might see J as physically attractive while Giovanni has those bizarre fantasies.

Also after checking the definition, Epileptic Trees is for insane theories. I think the Pallet Trainers and Sir Aaron ones are a little too grounded to qualify and are just normal WMG.

Evil Is Sexy for Team Galactic was definitely because of their outfits, and being somewhat attractive.

Mars in particular with her official artwork showing off her backside such as what's shown on Bulbapedia.

edited 3rd Sep '15 8:04:21 PM by Retloclive

If you write up an entry I don't see why we can't have them listed.

Also, opinions on Epileptic Trees would be appreciated.

edited 3rd Sep '15 8:10:29 PM by Karxrida

I say keep the first bullet on Epileptic Tress

• A very large number of people have speculated on the identity of Ash's father for years. The theories and evidence offered up for proof of one candidate tend to swing from reasonable(Giovanni,Silver) to really out-there(Prof. Oak, Lugia!).

That's a good write up there

Thanks, It was overdue. I was just sitting on how to salvage the Epileptic Tree entry with at least 1 example and I got it.