Alternate history scenarios, ideas, general questions and miscellaneous points

In the 1700s◊? I'm not sure that there's enough human beings to do that much damage in that time period (eg: starting fires at both ends of a country to make sure it burns properly). It's a massive effort that really pushes disbelief for what would be possible for humanity in that era.

I say this as someone who's seen some weird sunsets due to wildfires in the region. Those only last for as long as the fires do. The difference is the altitude the particulate matter is forced up to, which isn't very high with plant matter fires, and very high with powerful volcanic eruptions.

That said, the situation you've described would deprive regions of necessary plant materials (food crops, ruminant feed, wooden fuel for winter heat, etc.) and coal to the point that if they were followed up by a couple of bad volcanic winters... yeah, you could feasibly see some human extinction.

(Petroleum refining only began in the mid-1800s though, so prior to that it was considerably less useful as a fuel. More of a building material, if anything.)

Hmm, good point. Might rework that part so it's less a nuclear winter and more similar to a more modern and global version of the bronze age collapse which could possibly be followed by human extinction.

edited 30th Jul '17 2:53:25 AM by Matm

Since there are so many conspiracies about The Knights Templar colonizing America, I thought it would be interesting to see a scenario where The Teutonic Knights established a colony in the New World since they did control a state in the Baltic region around the time the Americas were discovered. The point of divergence would be that the Teutonic Knights were victorious at the Battle of Grunwald. They become much more powerful than in our timeline and cultivate a strong relationship with the Habsburg family, who are interested in having allies to help them fight the Ottomans. In order to maintain their relationship, the Habsburgs grant the order the right to establish a colony in the New World.

Would this colony just fold after a few years or could it survive for sometime? If it does survive, how would the existence of a Teutonic colony affect the history of the Colonial Era?

edited 1st Aug '17 9:25:03 AM by SharkToast

Very nice idea!

If it can help you, the Knights Hospitaller possessed colonies in the Caribbean for fourteen years, from 1651 to 1665 (they acquired them from a failed french attempt of colonization and then sold them to France again).

How would the world be different if superheroes have existed for a long time, changing history as they go?

For example, World War II being won by a superhero team, and this was actually known to the public.

That might depend on how powerful the Superheroes are and how many there are. Is there a superman level power lurking around your world? Any involvement of extraterrestrial forces with these superheroes?

Might be more emphasis towards vigilantism and more reliance on superheroes to save the day.

What would the effect on Britain be if France colonizes the 13 colonies first? Britain would have to settle for what we'd call Quebec and Louisiana. From the mid 1600's Britain would also have control of Alaska and the Yukon. Elsewhere in this timeline Britain still gains control over India as they did OTL. In Asia Britain only has Australia and Siberia east of the Verkhoyansk Range.

Would we see the population in Louisiana being as low as it was OTL or would Britain send more colonists there than France did? Would the Siberian and Alaskan region get developed very much by Britain?

edited 3rd Sep '17 2:04:56 AM by zepv

I've been going down the Alternate History route too, for one of my Alternate Continuities.

I'm focusing on a fairly small detail (if we're going by For Want Of A Nail) - the automobile industry. But then again, I'm an automobile enthusiast, so write about what you know.

I'm trying to work out the good and bad points of these scenarios happening.

- MG Rover does 'not go bankrupt in 2005 and gets sold either to General Motors or another, unnamed buyer who doesn't exist in our timeline.

- General Motors kept Asuna on after 1994 (in our timeline it was only in Canada 1992-1994) and it's marketed as a sort of alternative brand that's not fitting any of the usual GM brands' images (not a Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Geo, GMC, Holden, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saturn, Vauxhall)

- The recession of 2007-2012 never happened with no subprime mortgage crisis etc.

- Mazda decide to re-issue the 626 in 2012 as a style alternative to the Mazda 6/Atenza sedan, with a more retro feel, and only 2.0i or 2.5 V6 petrol engines.

- General Motors try and take Asuna as a brand away from the regular line of GM vehicles in image, design and engineering terms, although it's still sold via Chevrolet/Buick showrooms.

- In the United Kingdom, Hyundai decide to try and market some Chinese-built versions of their cars (older models) to expand the range and to keep the budget Hyundai image going for people who felt they went too upmarket with the Genesis.

My alternate history is told via two very different means:

- A Wordpress blog on localhost - presented as an in-universe article (not publically accessible).

- Some magazines designed on Adobe In Design as PD Fs made to look like replicas of real ones, with different names to real ones, but similar sort of writing style etc.

This is probably a very specialized area of Alternate History but I'd appreciate any advice!

I wonder how Adolf Hitler would be remembered if he died at the beginning of his reign as chancellor. Like if in 1933 he's had a whole day in office and he gets a heart attack for whatever reason. Would the Nazis retain their power at all? How would he be seen? I could ask this of if he had a heart attack and died right after promising peace with Chamberlain

If it's 1933 then the Night of the Long Knives doesn't kick off without Hitler covering for the Nazis. Either they go for it anyway and end up overthrown by public riots or they don't bother with such a revolutionary act.

So we've got a group of people fleeing chaos in their home continent. They call themselves the Sgaoileadh (exiles). When they conquer a new home would it be likely that they would use that word for their new nation (perhaps to remember their lost homelands and remind future generations that they have to retake their original homes) or would they more likely name it something more pleasant like Mara Mòr (Great Sea).

edited 29th Sep '17 7:07:34 AM by zepv

So, I actually have a proper question this time; I've been thinking lately of an alternate history for a Sci-Fi setting. The basic gist is that the Soviet Union didn't fall apart in the 90s; it instead took a similar route that China did in the late 70s, including establishing 'special economic zones' open to foreign investment. It later teamed up with Japan - at the time going through its Japan Takes Over the World phase - to share resources and technology to effectively quash China's development, which later lead to the collapse of the PRC and the reunification of China and Taiwan, albeit in dire economic straits; in effect, the same as what happened in OTL if the USSR and the PRC switched places. The Soviet Union is later heavily privatised, as was the case with OTL China, and in the 2020s becomes the dominant world superpower after... something happens to the United States, its old Cold War rival.

That something is what I'm having trouble thinking of. Simply put, how would the United States and the wider Western world react to the continued existence of the USSR into the 21st century, and its displacement of China? Or Japan joining industrial forces with them in spite of their military alliance with the USA? Or any other unrelated implausibilites. I mean, I've been thinking of having Gorbachev get the idea to copy Deng Xiaoping because someone from OTL sent psychic visions to him back in time, so a certain amount of implausibility is to be expected, methinks. :V

edited 31st Dec '17 4:53:09 PM by PresidentStalkeyes

If the world could avoid nuclear winter from a nuclear war how long would it take for America to recover from a nuclear war between Russia and America?

@President- I think you only need look at the current occupant of the White House to see one answer to your question. Collaboration between an American political party and a foriegn power, leading to open violence, a suspension of constitutional protections, and our fall from super power status is not al all implausible.

I had an idea about a Cyberpunk / Urban Fantasy Alternate History timeline that Never Was This Universe (due mostly to the existence of the world's magic system being common knowledge for most of known human history, but also due to a few relatively minor differences before the main point of divergence), but was still close enough to our world until the main point of divergence.

As you probably saw if you clicked the link, the main point of divergence was World War II, specifically before the D-Day happened (although pretty close). All of the main superpowers pretty much simultaneously developed Nuclear Weapons (it wasn't simultaneous, but news of other nations successfully testing nukes reached the first nations to develop them before they could use them, and no matter how bloodthirsty or crazy any of the nations were, they all knew what nuclear warfare would mean). World War 2 shifted seemingly overnight into this world's version of the Cold War (which has been a 3-way cold war (the three alliances of superpowers being The United States & Britain, Imperial Japan & Nazi Germany, and The Soviet Union & Communist China), which has lasted a very long time (the story is set in the year 2134).

Unusually, considering it's a Cyberpunk story, there are no Mega Corps, the main villains instead being law enforcement officers, foreign spies, and organized criminals. There is, of course, a lot of Black-and-Grey Morality, especially on the national level (considering that the U.S.A. has degenerated into a slightly downplayed version of Oppressive States of America (Britain is slightly better), and the other end of the moral spectrum quite literally being Those Wacky Nazis). Cyberterrorist attacks are far too common, and the threat of a nuclear war is always growing. Nowhere is a good place to live in, as the places not claimed by one of the six superpowers are polluted wastelands with puppet-states of six superpowers constantly waging proxy wars, the places claimed by one of the six superpowers are extremely oppressive and in constant threat of a nuclear strike or cyberterrorist attack, and crime is everywhere.

The United States controls most of mainland North America, including pretty much all of the Central American nations and western Canada (I am using the terms in our world, they're no longer called that). They also control Cuba and, (of course) Puerto Rico. In this world, they never controlled Hawaii (their reason for joining World War II being Handwaved as the Japanese attacking a Californian military base instead), but otherwise their current territory in our world is controlled in this world as well.

Nazi Germany controls most of mainland Western Europe, with the exception of Portugal and Spain. They also control some parts of Eastern and Northern Europe, including some parts (including Eastern Germany) that belonged to the Soviets post-WWII in our world (such as Poland).

The Soviet Union controls most of the land it controlled at its peak in our world (The Exceptions all being either controlled by Nazi Germany or given to the USSR's ally, China).

Britain controls all of Ireland, and also controls Spain, Portugal, Non-Mainland Europe, Greenland, and all of Canada that isn't controlled by the United States.

Japan controls most of non-mainland Asia, as well as Hawaii. It also has a loose handhold on parts of southern mainland Asia.

China controls almost all of mainland Asia that is not controlled by the Soviet Union, including Mongolia, the Koreas, and India, among others. It does not control Pakistan, Afghanistan, or any lands to the West of those two countries.

I should take this time to (again) note that that I used the names that the lands controlled by the Superpowers that aren't in our world are known of in our world. They are no longer known by these names in this world, now being official territories of the Superpowers that control them.Puppet states are not listed. If they were, all six nations would control parts of South America, The Middle East, and Africa, and these parts would be constantly changing hands.

edited 13th Feb '18 2:21:41 PM by SomethingRandom113

In my timeline there's been a nuclear war between two nations. The two nations have used lots of small yield munitions instead of less large yield ones, resulting in a nuclear winter not appearing post war. Two superpowers have waited until the war ended and are now squabbling over the remains of the two combatants. Got some questions:

How exhausted would the nuclear stocks of the combatants be? Could the superpowers sweep in and take the ruined nations without risk of a significant nuclear response (enough retaliation to significantly affect national stability or industrial output)? How long would these nations be open to invasion for before they can reconstruct a significant nuclear deterrent?

If the two ruined nations were using the same nuclear weapons and ballistic defense systems as the superpowers would this make another nuclear war less likely? One one hand the very area where combat is occurring is a stark reminder of what will happen to your own nation. The very leaders who thought they would be safe in bunkers are now dead. On the other hand the previous nuclear war may have broken the nuclear taboo and made a nuclear war a less unusual option for dealing with enemies.

edited 6th May '18 7:12:37 AM by zepv

First, lots of small nukes would throw up just as much dust as a couple big ones. That could definitely still lead to a nuclear winter effect. How pronounced depends on a lot of different factors, but it could lead to temperatures dropping across the region by several degrees.

As far as stockpiles, that really depends on the country in question. Minor nuclear powers usually have anywhere from 100 to 300 warheads. A local exchange could use two thirds of that. If the countries were destabilized to the point of becoming failed states, the major powers would swoop in ASAP to pick up the remainder of the nukes. The US has plans in place to secure Pakistan's nukes in the event of instability, and one would assume China and Russia have similar plans as well. Nobody wants loose nukes.

For the second question, that's a big unknown and I would say you can fill that in depending on how you want your story to go. There's been a lot of speculation both ways about what would happen if the nuclear taboo was broken, but there's no way to know until someone starts nuking.

This question is going to be more suited for the History Thread but because I'm working out the story concept I wrote here, the question felt best suited here.

Now then, before I ask, let me explain. For that story concept of mine, there was no World War I but instead, another Russo-Turkish War. Here's what I came up with so far.

1. 1905 Revolution still ended like it did in real life but Tsar Nicholas II and his family are assassinated afterward. His brother Michael is Tsar. Evidence planted by the time-traveling antagonist of the story point to the Bolshevik leadership. Vladimir Lenin is assassinated while hiding abroad.

2. First Balkan War still happened like it did in real life but for the second, it ended in 1914. Why?

a. Rather than his son, Austro-Hungarian Emperor Franz Josef is assassinated instead but in Vienna. The assassins are found to be Serbian soldiers. The Austro-Hungarian Empire invades both Serbia and Montenegro with the explicit permission of the Russian Empire (done by the aforementioned time-traveling antagonist secretly running the Russian Empire from behind the scenes under the alias "Avel Volkov").

b. The war ends with Serbia and Montenegro no longer existing, Macedonia cut up between Greece and Bulgaria, and the anti-Bulgarian coalition offered Siberium, the fictional fuel source for this story, from the conquered Serbia and Montenegro as compensation for the war.

3. The Ottoman Empire makes war with the Russian Empire, with the battlefield being in the Caucasus only. Genocide by Ottomans against Greeks, Assyrians, and Armenians still happens but the time-traveling antagonist has agents collect proof and Ottoman politicians willing to defect to publicize all of this, economically dooming the Ottoman Empire. The Arab Revolt still happens, complete with British support.

4. The time-traveling antagonist has Tsar Michael assassinated. Manipulates everything to have The French Revolution he prevented occur in Russia instead, sans the guillotine. The war with the Ottoman Empire still continues but the puppet of the time-traveling antagonist, Leonid Aristov, is assassinated by a loyalist. The time-traveling antagonist arranges for Leonid's twin brother Yevgeny to take over, with Yevgeny deciding to be a Tsar himself. He conquers all the territories that were promised autonomy by his twin brother sans Finland, creating the Autocratic Eurasian Empire.

Now, with all of that, here's the question: without World War I, would the Kingdom of Italy still want Ethiopia like what happened in real life with this?

edited 7th May '18 1:26:10 PM by HallowHawk

The Baltimore Plot intrigues me as a possible POD. Had it worked, Lincoln would've been the only man elected president yet never served the office. His running mate Hannibal Hamlin would've become president instead, right? If so, how might he have dealt with the Civil War in comparison to Lincoln? Could he have won a second term against George B McClellan?

edited 19th May '18 10:54:22 PM by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93

Probably better than Lincoln. VP Hamlin was a hardline abolitionist while Lincoln was more lukewarm. Hamlin had also served in the militia and on a military staff. As such, he'd have a decent idea about how war was waged and prosecuted it more effectively.

However, this more radical stance may loose the Union some sympathy.

I like to think of what would've happened if the lesser known DIO(died in office) presidents lived a term. If Zachary Taylor didn't get food poisoning, what would be the immediate effects of his full 4 year term? Could the Civil War have happened earlier or later than OTL? Would he have even bothered running a second term?

edited 19th May '18 10:56:39 PM by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93

At one point during Taylor's presidency slave states threatened to secede. Taylor threatened to respond with force. So if Taylor didn't die, either the slave states would backdown or they'd secede and the civil war would've started earlier. Edit: Alternatively, Taylor's advisors could've talked him down and convinced him to accede to some of their demands.

edited 24th May '18 12:11:53 PM by SharkToast

Another Whig alternative: of all the people that was the main Whig candidate in the election, Henry Clay was probably the best. Harrison, Taylor and Scott are excellent generals, but they make poor politicians. And the 1844 election was at an important part in American history given Polk is probably the most successful president between Jackson and Lincoln. As such, I'd be interested in an Alternate History where Clay beats Polk

I think that Henry Clay would've won if Lewis Cass was the Democratic Nominee. He was a weaker candidate than James K. Polk. Clay was opposed to annexing Texas, so I don't think Texas would've joined the Union during his presidency. I don't think this would've prevented a war with Mexico, only delayed it. Clay would've been a more competent than the other Whig Presidents. This would strengthen the Whig party in the long run, perhaps even preventing its break up.

What might be the minimum amount of time for the stereotype of a nation to go from hyper violent barbarians to basically what Canada's stereotype is now?

The nation started out after a nuclear war as one fragment of a former super power engaged in violent wars of reunification which affected how they were seen by the world. After the wars ended the nation focused on rebuilding and re branding itself. The government of the newly re unified nation tried to reshape its values and culture as few were willing into enter into diplomatic relations with what was once a Mad Maxian wasteland empire.

The nation, called the Nemedian Empire in a general sense went from something like the hyper violent Immortan Joe's Empire in Mad Max, to a "cultural recasting" phase here the government enforced stifling conformity among the many conquered nations in the wasteland to unify their cultures (people won't revolt if they think they are the same as you). They worked on molding all their people into something that the other nations in the world would accept and would foster long term harmony to prevent another violent break up,

edited 4th Jun '18 3:29:59 AM by matti23