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captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#1: Sep 26th 2012 at 7:00:05 PM

Ok so the Example as a Thesis, laconic, and playing with page seem to imply that this trope is when "Somebody pretends to be a victim to get others' sympathy and turn them against the accused aggressor." but the description says "a ploy in which the schemer pretends to be a victim in order to garner sympathy for themselves or foster animosity towards the alleged aggressor."

This needs to be a lot clearer on how broad this trope is.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#2: Sep 26th 2012 at 8:18:41 PM

I think the purpose is much less important (if at all) than the means. It's about playing wounded to get a benefit, one way or another.

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Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#3: Sep 27th 2012 at 9:20:02 PM

Agree with the quacking one above me. The point of a gambit is to achieve a goal. What that goal may be is irrelevant, as long as there is one, and the gambit furthers it (or is intended to further it).

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Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#4: Sep 28th 2012 at 1:32:56 PM

As a suggestion for a replacement laconic: "Pretending to be a victim to manipulate others."

Suggested description (feedback welcomed):


Using self-inflicted injuries, real or fake, to deceive others and manipulate them into doing what you want. Often used to frame a third party, this strategy is particularly effective for, and often used by, women, due to societal prohibitions against hurting women.

Named for the trick sometimes used by a mother gazelle (or other deer) of pretending to be injured in order to lure a predator away from her young. Once a safe distance is reached, the pretense can be dropped, and the mother can bound away, leaving the hapless predator in the dust. When humans use this trick, though, their motives are often not-so-noble.

Pretending to be a victim can be a great way of disguising your own guilt, so this is a common trope on a mystery series. In Film Noir, this became a stock trick for the Femme Fatale or The Vamp. When the self-inflicted injury is terminal, it can become a case of Suicide, Not Murder.

This is by no means limited to personal injuries. The Evil Overlord can injure his own people and try to blame another country, providing a quick and easy justification for war. This is mentioned as #34 in The Thirty Six Stratagems, making this one of The Oldest Tricks in the Book.

Can cover anything from a Lame Excuse to Malicious Slander. For a slandered party, it often precludes I Can Explain, and can lead to Poor Communication Kills. Can overlap with I Surrender, Suckers. If you're a member of a minority, Everything Is Racist is a convenient way to invoke this trope. When done against police, it's often a Police Brutality Gambit. When done on a large scale, it's often a False Flag Operation.

Compare Why Did You Make Me Hit You?, Arrested for Heroism, and Playing the Victim Card. Often related to Guilt by Association Gag. Contrast Wounded Gazelle Warcry where it's not a trick.

edited 29th Sep '12 10:47:52 PM by Xtifr

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AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#5: Sep 28th 2012 at 5:13:34 PM

Works for me.

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Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#6: Sep 29th 2012 at 5:41:09 PM

Bump for more feedback.

Since it's the weekend now, I want to wait till at least Tuesday before doing anything drastic, so the week-day visitors also have a chance to see and comment on my proposal. I'll bump this again earlyish on Monday if I haven't gotten any responses before then.

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reub2000 Since: Feb, 2011
#7: Sep 29th 2012 at 10:00:34 PM

Some comments about your description:

  • Simply using self-inlicted injuries for manipulation is not this trope. There has to be a clear deception, claiming the injury was the result of an accident or another person. Saying that you hurt yourself due to abandonment by another person is not this trope.
  • In false flag operations, the people hurt really are victims, just not of who they think. In the case of an Evil Overlord hurting his own minions, it only counts if the minions are voluntary participating in the scheme.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#8: Sep 29th 2012 at 11:08:21 PM

Your first point is excellent. I hadn't emphasized the deceptive element enough. I edited the description to mention deception right up front.

Your second point...I don't think I agree. But maybe that part needs some clarification. As long as the ruthless tyrant/"fearless leader" can claim that an injury to his men, or to his peasants, is an injury to him as the representative of the state, he can put this trope in play. Whether the men/peasants agree to go along with the scheme or not. But if he's so plainly evil that nobody would believe he has any sympathy for his people, then you may have a point. So maybe Evil Overlord was the wrong trope to invoke. I'll have to think about it.

edited 29th Sep '12 11:09:26 PM by Xtifr

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Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#9: Oct 3rd 2012 at 2:17:19 PM

Bump for more comments on my proposed new description, especially with respect to the second point raised by reub2000. Since the question has been raised, I don't want to make a unilateral decision. On the other hand, if nobody responds in the next couple of days, I'll probably just go with what I've got.

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Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
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#10: Oct 4th 2012 at 10:12:31 AM

I don't see any glaring issues with the new description.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#11: Oct 4th 2012 at 2:07:29 PM

Doesn't have to be glaring. I'll happily accept suggestions for minor improvements. :)

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Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#12: Oct 6th 2012 at 12:53:39 AM

Ok, nobody said no, so I went ahead and installed the new description and laconic. I only made a small tweak to the "basic trope" section of the Playing With page, though, since the examples all still seem to fit. If anyone wants to tweak it further, I won't object, but it seemed good enough for now.

Basically, I think we're done here.

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AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
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