Welcome to the Content Violations Discussion forum, where we discuss whether a work violates The Content Policy.
Remember that the forum rules apply here, plus the following:
- You don't PM moderators about stuff pertaining to the policies, except for thread reasons;
- We tolerate links to scanlation sites unlike in the rest of the site due to its purpose, although it's preferred to remove them when they have done their jobs;
- The forum is not a soapbox for your own views on the policy or on morality. Please leave them at the door.
Violations of these rules can result in a ban from the subforum, or from the entire forum.
Otherwise:
Also, keep in mind that there are works that we don't want flagged without a really good reason as they are not likely in violation of policy:
- Is a film rated below "R" for U.S. distribution.
- Is a show that can be aired on prime time television.
- Is a video game that is rated below "M" by the ESRB.
- Is a written work that is sold in major bookstores without an "adult" or "mature" label.
- Is an anime/manga/etc. that is approved for U.S. import as a non-adult work.
- Is read/shown/taught in high school or below.
- Is in another format and meets equivalent criteria.
What we're looking for:
- Pure porn, or porn with an Excuse Plot only,
- Anything that has explicit underage sex,
- Implied sex of preteens or younger, and
- Fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles (lolicon and shotacon fanservice can count).
A couple of guidelines so the procedure can move smoothly:
- Do not list whole indexes or works just because they are on a certain index or have lolicon, H-Game or shotacon on their trope list.
- Do not list works you know nothing about without at least reading the trope page.
- Do not list works that you know are G-rated but you find creepy.
- If it's paedophile-pandering approximately how old are the characters involved? What happens? Is it graphic? Is it merely implied?
- List what objectionable content there is, and how much of the work consists of that.
- If it's entirely sex, say so. People have different ideas of what porn is. We all have the same idea of what a work being entirely sex scenes is.
- If you're not sure about a work, say so, or ask someone who does know that work. But don't make blanket accusations. Post here: "I don't know about this work, but the page says X".
- Google and Wikipedia are your friendsnote . Do a little digging on works you aren't sure about.
Also, in the case of H Games, there is this questioning to fill up:
- When are the sex scenes located?
- Are they spread out over the game?
- How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?
- Are they only at the endings?
- How hard do you have to work to get an ending?
- Are they in every ending? Every good ending?
- Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?
- Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?
- Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?
- How explicit are the sex scenes?
- This isn't a headcount. Your opinion is only considered if it explains in at least some detail how you came to the conclusion that the work is/isn't porn/paedopandering.
- When a moderator determines that the discussion has yielded a consensus, they can enact its conclusion/ask a moderator to enact the conclusion.
- The discussion is only about whether the work qualifies as porn or as paedopandering. We don't assess anything else in this process.
Q: Why is this happening?
A: Concerning the porn, it tends to attract creepy edits that have brought us into issues with the adservers while not significantly contributing to our core purpose - tropology. Concerning paedophilia-pandering, such works are just plain creepy to have pages about.
Q: What can I do to help clean the site?
A: You can flag content as unsuitable using the flag tool, which is located in the Tools menu to the right of each article, keeping the criteria in mind. Also, you can help enforce No Lewdness, No Prudishness across the wiki, possibly though cleaning pages listed in this Long Term Projects thread.
Q: This work is not actually/primarily pornographic. Why was it cut?
A: This could be for a number of different reasons. If the work was deemed to be paedopandering, for example, it will be cut whether or not it's actually sexually explicit. Being pro-paedophilia or pandering to paedophiles is bad enough, even if the work is nominally anti-paedophilia. Of course, it's possible that there was a mistake and then you should appeal it - please check the reasons first, however.
Q: This work is being/has been cut, but it is not a violation of the Content Policy. How do I make an appeal?
A: Flag the work page using the button in the sidebar and state your reasons for restoration.
Q: This work is pretty much pure porn, but it's really good porn. Can an exception be made?
A: Nope, sorry. If it's mainly porn, it goes.
Q: Why would you cut this? In [culture x], it is totally acceptable.
A: The vast majority of our readers come from the Americas or Western Europe, so we will be adhering to what could broadly be termed "Western" standards. This means we will not be permitting works which sexualize 12 year olds, and nor will we be demanding that every picture of a woman on the site must wear a burqa.
Q: How can you possibly claim to know authorial intent? (Roland Barthes is my co-pilot.)
A: It is not important what the authorial intent was, only the outcome.
Q: Wikipedia have articles on all kinds of awful stuff. Why can't we do the same?
A: Wikipedia is a strictly academic site. They have to cite sources and a "no censorship rule". They also do not aim to be Family Friendly, and are not reliant upon third party ads for funding. Conversely, one of our stated aims is to celebrate fiction, and our generally light, non-negative tone is a reflection of this, which has led to much more gushing about inappropiate content.
Q: So should I take every article here as an endorsement of whatever it describes?
A: No, of course not. We have pages on Greedy Jew, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf after all. However, if we choose to focus our attention on schoolgirls' thighs or porn, it does reflect very poorly on us. Fan Fic Recommendations are a slightly different issue. If a work is recommended there, this should be taken as an endorsement by the troper who wrote it.
Q: Are we allowed to make forum threads about works processed by the Content Violation Discussions forum?
A: If it was voted "clean and keep", a forum thread is relatively safe as long as it is restricted to talking about the clean parts. Anything with a stronger judgement is discouraged on the forums.
Q: Where can I find decisions regarding a work?
A: They are linked from the discussion page. Sometimes the old list of content reviews or the thread list in this forum can help as well.
Q: I still have some questions/concerns.
A: We will be happy to answer them. There is a thread for this.
- Guro: Violence played for titillation. (contrast Gorn)
- 5P or P5: The panel that administered the policy prior to the review system being overhauled in 2022. See 5P.
- P(a)edoshit: Older term for "P(a)edopandering", deprecated for being inflammatory.
- Porn: A work mostly concerned with sexual arousal. Having NSFW or explicit scenes doesn't automatically make a work porn — it's when showcasing explicit scenes is the entire point of the work.
Also, questions about the policy can be asked here. They will be added to this thread's FAQ section once answered.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Apr 27th 2024 at 7:29:01 PM
New discussion for a work that I did send for the 5P to think about.
Killing Stalking is a yaoi webcomic and dear god prepare for the Brain Bleach. From what I have seen through images on Google that isn't fanart and on a youtube video about it is that there is genitals shown (Or a dildo), someone masturbating to a corpse with sperm (It's portrayed worse than in End of Evangelion) and there's near rape scenes and very abusive sex scenes. Also everyone on certain websites are comparing this to A Serbian Film from the looks of things. It's basically Korean's attempt at a very disturbing Exploitation Film and Torture Porn.
It's not exactly porn but it's disgusting enough for a look I'll say.
edited 11th May '17 1:09:25 PM by ReynTime250
This isn't the right thread for this - you want the flag evaluations thread.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)Ok thank you. That was a mess up. I think my mind went a bit loopy.
After reading the flagging guidelines, I feel Excuse Plot is too YMMV in regard to sexual content. Some people believe that any plot becomes this if it includes the slightest suggestion of sex. Others (I admit I fall into this camp) frequently view erotica and porn and likely have a skewed tolerance for plotlessness.
There are a few NSFW Tokyo Ghoul doujin I think are compelling enough to clear the guidelines for adding to Fanfic Recs but is there a more firm line that can be described? Or is it possible to get a pre-approval?
edited 23rd May '17 6:46:09 PM by IsaacsLaughing
There isn't a firm line; the famous definition of obscenity comes to mind. "I know it when I see it."
Pre-approval is unnecessary. If you're posting in good faith, they might ax your rec but they won't ax you.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.Vagueness is why we have a committee that votes on them rather than one person judging with a strict length of a ruler.
What are those doujins? And do remember that Fanfic Recs are a lil bit stricter than just having a page about something
- No prurient recommendations. That is, don't write like you are getting off to the work.
- No recommendations with sex involving under-16 year olds. Yes, it's technically not always paedopandering, but that's what the administration went with.
edited 23rd May '17 9:30:46 PM by Adannor
Thank you for your responses.
Innocent Blue by Kisaragi Ao
Status: Complete
Synopsis: Focuses on Sasaki's dynamic with his subordinates and friends, and his belief that other people will suffer if he loves them.
Pairing: Haise Sasaki x Touka Kirishima, het
Tags: lemon, tragedy, hallucinations
Koufukuron by Kisaragi Ao
Status: Complete
Synopsis: Sasaki reflects on the value of family.
Pairing: Haise Sasaki x Touka Kirishima, het
Tags: lemon
edited 24th May '17 5:45:48 AM by IsaacsLaughing
If the tag is "lemon," better not. Usually, that means Porn Without Plot.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.I just included that tag because I thought it means any sex that happens to appear in a fanwork?
Explicit sexual content, and usually fairly pervasive, although it's not an instant disqualifier.
Wasn't there a whole Sliding Scale of Sexual Content with fruit names (of which Lime is also a survivor)? I read about something like that in an essay on fanfic once (like a literal scholarly essay in an anthology of same revolving around cult TV and fandoms).
The article for Lime actually has an external link to that scale, the "Citrus Scale". I'd never heard of it before now - you learn new things every day on TV Tropes!
That a fic is a lemon doesn't say anything than how explicit the content is. The amount or concentration isn't really a significant factor in it. While Sturgeon's Law certainly applies, there are tons of lemons out there with a hefty story page count that vastly outnumbers the sex pages. Or word count, as might be a better measurement.
In my experience, other than "lemon" and "lime", those aren't used that much, or at least not in any of the fandoms I'm familiar with. Probably because it's not that notable to note the lack of explicit content.
Check out my fanfiction!This... got deeper than I expected.
I feel I have a better sense of where to draw the line, thanks. I think those doujin pass and if someone flags 'em, welp, their loss.
Question: Wasn't there a rule forbidding direct links to NSFW pages (which included galleries showing images of such nature)? Because AFAIK NHentai (which is linked to here) is all about Hentai doujinshi and thus heavily NSFW everywhere except the dashboard and info pages.
edited 28th May '17 6:19:18 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.They're generally forbidden, but for research purposes like this and for very occasional situations in IP, they're permissible. Once a decision is made, the links should either be killed with the [= =] markup or removed entirely.
Looking at the thumbnails, "hentai doujinshi" is exactly how I'd describe them (looks to be one explicit sex scene in each, with some blanking of naughty bits).
edited 28th May '17 8:08:55 PM by Willbyr
NSFW and scanlation links are specifically allowed for P5 review, since the point is to permit a fair hearing, as it were. Putting such links elsewhere is a good way to get a shoulder tap if there isn't a very good reason.
edited 4th Jun '17 12:57:01 AM by Candi
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry PratchettI couldn't find another source for one of the doujin so I removed it from the Tokyo Ghoul fanfic page. Shame... The other one, I changed to a link to the scanlator's tumblr page.
Whoops, I think I posted in the wrong place. Sorry aboyt that.
edited 10th Jul '17 1:03:02 PM by Lightmaster
At the risk of sounding like make-work, I was wondering if Five P needs to be its own page instead of being a redirect to Know the Staff. Mostly because too many policy pages make it easier for people to miss stuff, and KTS already serves as the hub for the staff info.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI see no reason why not. Originally, there was a big deal about P5 not being staff, but I don't think the distinction is needed anymore.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.On the one hand, a full explanation of the duties and constraints of the P5 should have its own page; on the other, I really wouldn't mind if we were actually mentioned by name on the staff page if we're actually considered staff at this point.
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.Don't we have The Content Policy and the 5P Circuit for that?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.True. This being said, if we're going to merge the first two, we really must link the resulting page with the third and make them all easy to find.
I'll hide your name inside a word and paint your eyes with false perception.
Sounds good to me (although I'd think the name Alien Viagra is a really bad name for this trope, for a number of reasons). Probably best to hold off until the TLP reform thread has produced results, then put the page through that process.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)