Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I did explicitly mention Hitler in my last post. There is literally no argument in the word-as-a-sentence "Hitler."
Also this.
edited 30th Jun '15 9:47:33 AM by SolipSchism
I think it would be better if we simply emphasized the TV Tropes policy aspect rather than bringing real-world opinions about morality - which may not be shared by everyone - into the discussion.
Oversized Garden Ornament
Let's keep personal moral philosophy out of this. The wiki can't take an official stand on whether evil exists or not.
The fact that calling real people evil (for whatever reason) is likely to lead to natter and outright flame wars, and even defamation lawsuits, is reason enough to forbid it.
edited 30th Jun '15 11:38:23 AM by GnomeTitan
On the contrary, what I'm saying is not an opinion—it is the only way to look at it objectively.
Any discussion about morality is necessarily built on subjective ideas. There is nothing objective about morality. Someone can always argue the point, and you can never "prove" that someone or something is good or evil in real-world terms that everyone can or will accept.
The only reasonable and practical stance to take is to avoid the issue entirely: As far as the wiki is concerned, there is no such thing as real-life objective morality.
I'm not making far-reaching epistemological claims about the nature of good and evil. I'm not saying there is no God. I'm saying that there is no way to argue the point objectively, and trying to do so is pointless. That's why I bristle every time a morality trope comes up that says "X is evil" and people start trying to argue that it's not evil—that's counterproductive. It only complicates the issue. The flat answer is not "It's not evil because X, Y, and Z"—the answer is "It's not evil because it cannot be evil objectively."
edited 30th Jun '15 12:42:26 PM by SolipSchism
Yes, exactly. All the moral philosophy stuff just muddles the argument and encourages people who disagree to challenge it. Frankly, "because" is all the answer we need for why this wiki doesn't apply morality tropes to real people.
That's basically what I'm saying. That there's no need to have a conversation about every morality trope as long as we can all agree that it is a morality trope.
Lost in Space
That is correct, and now we can end this derail.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
God, I hate "because" as an answer for anything 
.
Okay, I'm done, I just needed to get that off my chest.
edited 1st Jul '15 2:19:36 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I mean, the "because" answer is good enough, because this is a community that follows rules, and it's not up to each user to redefine the rules as they see fit. If the community questions the rule, the rule can change, but the community isn't questioning the rule.
But in at least this case, there's a simple reason for the rules that's easy to explain and apply—there's no need to try to question how it applies to each questionable example. Instead of trying to contort and permutate the rule for each example, the only thing that we need to do is to accept that "Rule X (NRLEP) applies to Category Y (Morality Tropes)," and then establish whether Trope Z falls under Category Y (Morality Tropes).
If it does, the rule applies. It's that simple. There's no "just because" about it; it's just so simple that it feels like a "just because".
edited 1st Jul '15 11:13:56 AM by SolipSchism
Oversized Garden Ornament
I'd just like to add that the reason I discussed the application of morality tropes to animals (which started this whole discussion) was a simple misunderstanding: I had somehow got the idea that the no-no was applying morality tropes to people ("calling real people evil"), mot to real life in general.
"In distress", my ass.
Calling:
- Fangs Are Evil: Added 24th Jun '15 at 04:16:13 PM, 3.67:1 (14)
- Jewish and Nerdy: Added 29th Jun '15 at 08:51:45 AM, 14:0
- White Anglo-Saxon Protestant: Added 29th Jun '15 at 08:50:37 AM, 14:0
Will set up a new crowner to hook in a minute, after I take care of NRLEPing the above trope pages. The sexuality tropes we were holding off on posting in crowner 33 I'll post on crowner 34 after the hook, to avoid the problem from before with voting on an unhooked crowner.
edited 1st Jul '15 3:24:10 PM by Nohbody
All your safe space are belong to Trump
Crowners switched and thread title changed to reflect.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
"In distress", my ass.
With the new crowner up, I added Butch Lesbian, Camp Gay, Camp Straight, and Manly Gay. Also added Room Full of Crazy, which I mentioned when the subject of Mad Doctor came up in the previous crowner, for the same reason that the wiki isn't for diagnosing insanity.
All your safe space are belong to Trump
Upvoted all of them for reasons already stated by others.
Whoever ends up pruning the sexuality tropes should probably check through them for stage personas that need to be moved to another section.
No, the other one.
That should always be part of the procedure. There are often examples in the Real Life section that should be in a different, fictional section.
Check out my fanfiction!
"In distress", my ass.
Calling:
- Butch Lesbian: Added 2nd Jul '15 at 11:17:54 AM, 15:0
- Camp Gay: Added 2nd Jul '15 at 11:19:37 AM, 14:1 (15)
- Camp Straight: Added 2nd Jul '15 at 11:18:41 AM, 14:1 (15)
- Laughably Evil: Added 2nd Jul '15 at 04:45:44 PM, 11:1 (12)
- Manly Gay: Added 2nd Jul '15 at 11:16:58 AM, 14:1 (15)
- Room Full of Crazy: Added 2nd Jul '15 at 11:23:18 AM, 6.5:1 (15)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
For Room Full of Crazy, are there any examples where the person has been diagnosed by a professional?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"In distress", my ass.
Nope, none of the entries involved a professional diagnosis.
All your safe space are belong to Trump
There's a RL folder in Defied Trope that lists the creation of the UN and Lo N to prevent another World War... But does this even count? World Wars are not tropes, and if we can use the page for stuff like this, then any given situation can be "defied".
Boldly Coming has a real life example. The trope is about having sex with aliens, so I propose it be put on the crowner for voting NRLE.
The existing example is misuse anyway.
Added it to the crowner.
Sorcerer in training
(turns it this way, that way, looks at it sideways)
To me, it doesn't even make sense in context.
And wouldn't defying a trope go under storytelling device, aka can't happen in RL anyway?
edited 5th Jul '15 10:07:07 PM by Candi
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
Not even then. Hitler Ate Sugar, after all, and it's impossible to say whether his absence would have made things worse or better — if anything, he was so crazy in later years that he actively hindered Germany's war effort. Had he not foolishly invaded Russia, Europe might now be speaking German.
Nothing is uniformly, perfectly evil in Real Life.
edited 30th Jun '15 9:41:49 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"