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Real Life section maintenance (New Crowner 19 Feb 2024)

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Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread.

This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.

Common problems include:

Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.

If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.

If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.

Before adding to the crowner:

  • The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
  • There must be support from others in thread.
  • Any objections should be addressed.
  • Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.

When adding to the crowner:

  • Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
  • Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
  • An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.

Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.

After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

NRLEP tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

LRLEO tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/LimitedRealLifeExamplesOnly via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

Notes:
  • This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
  • Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
  • As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
  • The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM

lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#1: Apr 21st 2012 at 1:03:17 PM

Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread.

This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.

Common problems include:

Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.

If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.

If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.

Before adding to the crowner:

  • The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
  • There must be support from others in thread.
  • Any objections should be addressed.
  • Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.

When adding to the crowner:

  • Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
  • Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
  • An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).

In order for a crowner to pass:

  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • There must be a 2:1 ratio
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
  • Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
  • Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page

Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.

Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.

After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

NRLEP tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/NoRealLifeExamplesPlease via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

LRLEO tag:

%% Trope was declared Administrivia/LimitedRealLifeExamplesOnly via crowner by the Real Life Maintenance thread: [crowner link]
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800

Notes:
  • This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
  • Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
  • As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
  • The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2: Apr 21st 2012 at 1:04:04 PM

[up]Conversation In The Main Page is already dealt with in the NATTER ALERT thread, but the rest is OK here.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#3: Apr 21st 2012 at 1:40:30 PM

I brought these up in Ask The Tropers, but Ambiguously Jewish and Ambiguously Gay. Not too squicky aside from the loaded word "suspected" in a few spots, but they're objective tropes of which "author dropping subtle hints" is an intrinsic element, and that doesn't happen in real life.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#4: Apr 21st 2012 at 2:07:51 PM

I vote the kill Real Life examples on Ambiguously Gay. TV Tropes is not a gossip column and it is not our place to speculate about the sexuality of Real Life people.

Fresison Since: Feb, 2012
#5: Apr 21st 2012 at 3:42:51 PM

We Will Have Euthanasia in the Future shouldn't have real life examples if you ask me. It's quite the controversial topic and talks about the future, not about the current situation.

DoktorvonEurotrash Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk Since: Jan, 2001
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
#6: Apr 22nd 2012 at 2:53:40 AM

Agree with [up] and [up][up].

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#7: Apr 22nd 2012 at 2:55:05 AM

Insufferable Genius.... calling a real person insufferable is really too much.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Telcontar In uffish thought from England Since: Feb, 2012
In uffish thought
#8: Apr 22nd 2012 at 3:13:56 AM

[up] Agreed. That section also has really bad indentation and some natter problems.

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#9: Apr 22nd 2012 at 11:09:29 AM

I agree with cutting all the real life sections of the pages mentioned so far. The Ambiguously X tropes and We Will Have Euthanasia in the Future by definition can't appear in real life (as mentioned by others earlier), and Insufferable Genius is rather negative.

Catbert Since: Jan, 2012
#10: Apr 22nd 2012 at 11:31:25 AM

So how do we come to an official decision on this tread? Mass crowner? Or wait for a mod to come along and make an official declaration?

Telcontar In uffish thought from England Since: Feb, 2012
In uffish thought
#11: Apr 22nd 2012 at 11:50:35 AM

Probably a crowner like on the YMMV tropes thread and the the Trivia tropes thread, but either get a mod to call it or have a ratio bar when we can call it, though that may well need to be higher than the one on the Trivia crowner.

[down] I know, but "calling" is the term used in both threads I linked above, so...

edited 22nd Apr '12 11:58:08 AM by Telcontar

That was the amazing part. Things just keep going.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#12: Apr 22nd 2012 at 11:52:39 AM

[up]These crowners have to be called by individual tropers, by striking out the items that have consensus. No way regular closure can be done here, since we would need a crowner for each item under discussion [/didactic]

edited 22nd Apr '12 11:53:18 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#13: Apr 22nd 2012 at 2:06:30 PM

Starting the crowner. If it gets too unwieldy, we can limit the size to, say, 10 or 15 pages and make new crowners as we go.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:06:44 PM by Willbyr

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#14: Apr 22nd 2012 at 2:08:03 PM

[up][up][up]You only need a moderator to close a crowner, but it usually happens along with calling.

These crowners can't be called by moderators, since they vote on many things at once and you can't close just one item.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CompletelyNormalGuy Am I a weirdo? from that rainy city where they throw fish (Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#15: Apr 22nd 2012 at 6:58:06 PM

I'm adding Sissy Villain to the list. It's got problems beyond the whole we don't like to call real people villains thing.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#16: Apr 23rd 2012 at 12:41:00 AM

As a general rule of thumb, I'd like to suggest:

Characterization Tropes

Future Tropes (what with not happening and all)

Morality Tropes

edited 23rd Apr '12 12:41:13 AM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#17: Apr 23rd 2012 at 8:41:24 AM

I don't like the idea of adding indices wholesale, but I agree that the Characterization Tropes probably need to be handled carefully in real life. They're particularly prone to the "objective in fiction, subjective in reality" issue, and/or are PSOC in real life.

edited 23rd Apr '12 8:42:23 AM by HersheleOstropoler

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
lu127 Paper Master from 異界 Since: Sep, 2011 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#18: Apr 23rd 2012 at 8:46:42 AM

No, please don't add whole indices in the crowner. It will just get messy.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#19: Apr 23rd 2012 at 8:48:48 AM

Given that such continuous crowners like the YMMV and Trivia one work by a consensus + 10 votes rule, can we apply it here and cut sections according to this rule?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Nocturna Since: May, 2011
#20: Apr 23rd 2012 at 9:15:26 AM

Wait, is this crowner just for removing real life examples, or is it for removing real life examples and applying No Real Life Examples Please?

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#21: Apr 23rd 2012 at 9:16:39 AM

[up]I think for the latter. Real Life examples usually go as soon as they become a problem. No Real Life Examples Please is what this crowner is for.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#22: Apr 23rd 2012 at 4:24:33 PM

I've added I Resemble That Remark! because it looks like it's asking for trouble.

HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#23: Apr 23rd 2012 at 4:37:05 PM

Can I Resemble That Remark! be cleaned and kept?

The child is father to the man —Oedipus
CompletelyNormalGuy Am I a weirdo? from that rainy city where they throw fish (Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#24: Apr 23rd 2012 at 5:07:01 PM

[up]Unlike some of the others here, that one is pretty objective, but, that being said, it seems to attract examples that can be controversial. My advice is that if you want it cleaned and kept, go ahead and clean it now, then watchlist it, so that you can keep it clean. If you can keep it from becoming a problem again, then I see no reason not to keep it.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
HersheleOstropoler You gotta get yourself some marble columns from BK.NY.US Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Less than three
You gotta get yourself some marble columns
#25: Apr 23rd 2012 at 5:55:04 PM

I never said I was volunteeringtongue

But yeah, I'll clean it, and then give it a couple of days. If it can't be cleaned/kept clean, I'll come back here and say so.

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

18th Feb '24 11:27:30 PM

Crown Description:

Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:
  • Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
  • Must have been up for a minimum of a week
  • If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.

After you bring up a trope for discussion, please try to wait at least a day or so for feedback before adding it to the crowner.

If an item has a (CLOSED) note, there is no need to vote on it: the result has already been decided and it's no longer up for discussion.

Total posts: 15,862
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