I think it's supposed to be a princess that acts like a princess should, as opposed to a Princess Classic (which lacks the politics aspect).
Otherwise, it's really unclear.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If that is the case then I would suggest a rename and a picture change.
Something like Political Savvy Princess would work.
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Perpetually Confused
Wow. I have no idea what this is supposed to be.
O_O
I'm just as baffled as everyone else.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Yeah, I thought the YKTTW was starting to go somewhere, but it was launched as a mess, and far different from the version I commented on.
edited 18th Mar '12 9:54:01 AM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickSo...redefinition time.
From what I get, it could be about a...royal skilled in politics, diplomacy and maybe manipulation. Not sure how tropable it is.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
I think it's a contrast to the rather non-political Princess Classic, while Badass Princess is the contrast to the non-action Princess Classic. I'd say it's tropable.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
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It is tropable.
- Princess Classic
- Badass Princess (which is really just Action Princess... needs a rename)
- Political Princess (which is closest to real life princess that fiction gets... unless they are just a Figurehead.)
edited 18th Mar '12 10:13:00 AM by Raso
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I like the idea of Political Princess. Making it about princesses whose focus is politics rather than what normal story princesses do. People like Princess Leia and Relena Peacecraft would fit. They both serve more as political leaders than as trophies, damsels, or action girls. Not that they don't do a little of that too.
edited 18th Mar '12 10:13:29 AM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickHmmmm, like Ashelia B'Nargin Dalmasca? Makes sense, I guess.
Always Female, right?
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Always Female I think because it doesn't have the same connotations when a Prince does it. It's expected of a prince. Not so much a princess. Especially because of Heir Club for Men.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
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Princes who get political are generally Evil but there are a few like Larsa.
Ninjaed... made a better point than I could.
edited 18th Mar '12 10:16:00 AM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
The Other Troper
Hey, I was wondering in the ykttw why this should be princess exclusive, and this political definition is a good reason. I approve.
edited 18th Mar '12 1:37:02 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Historically, this was expected of neither princes nor princesses. Many British royal men, for instance, spent most of their young adulthood as military officers, with no particular importance being placed on their royalty except as far as security risks were concerned... some treat it like a sinecure, some take their jobs seriously. Princes and princesses however have, from time to time, used their cachet to create genuine influence. They can get a lot of people to do things just by warning that they'll put in a word with His Majesty or the Earl of whatever if they're not humored.
Sometimes this is played for laughs when a nominal servant stubbornly upholds the orders of the actual monarch... but this can happen to actual monarchs, too, if they try to order a servant or government officer to do something that is improper.
I'm not quite sure what to make of this as a trope. It seems to be sort of like a princess who acts much as Hillary did as First Lady or Dick Cheney as VP, acting with legitmacy despite lacking much direct influence and getting a fair amount done. Soft power plus audacity plus savvy.
Historically has nothing to do with fiction. We're talking about fiction here. Don't bring the real world into it. Tropes don't work like the real world. None of what you said is applicable to the trope because in fictionland, it doesn't work like that.
edited 18th Mar '12 9:56:45 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
The Other Troper
It does belong on part of the description though, just shorter.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
No, it doesn't. Real world ramblings in trope descriptions should be cut. They cause natter in the description, trope decay, and make it harder to understand the trope. I just had to chop the majority of Molotov Cocktail because a little real world mention in the description had turned into a full fledged "Real world history of the invention and evolution of Molotov cocktails." It's a bad idea and it doesn't belong anywhere near the trope.
edited 18th Mar '12 10:17:37 PM by shimaspawn
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
The Other Troper
Wait. Reread that, and it fits on a Useful Notes page about royalty, not this. I first thought it was the part showing that at least part of the trope is Truth in Television.
edited 18th Mar '12 10:29:42 PM by DragonQuestZ
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.Attempted writeup:
The Politically Savvy Princess stands contrasting those expectations in a unique way. She is smart, and knowledgeable enough to involve herself in politics. She may be seen as a figuregead by others, but in truth, she tries to use her position in order to achieve her ends. Skilled in diplomacy, she will usually attempt to solve conflicts via conversation or bargaining, rather than combat. That, however, does not mean she cannot be a Lady of War or a Badass Princess at the same time.
Although historically this applied to both princes and princesses, in fiction, this trope is Always Female, as male royals are typically expected to act, while females...not so much.
Subtrope of Royals Who Actually Do Something.
edited 20th Mar '12 5:13:45 AM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Start with the trope and then contrast. It leads to decay otherwise.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickMmmm, switch around the two initial paragraphs somehow?
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Very good advice. To many trope descriptions spend too much time on what a trope is not, instead of stating up front what the trope is.
This trope subverts the Princess Classic, where the royal in question is characterized by her saintly virtues rather than her actions. Although historically this applied to both princes and princesses, in fiction, this trope is Always Female, as male royals are typically expected to act, while females...not so much.
A Politicaly Savvy Princess may also be a Rebellious Princess. A subtrope of Royals Who Actually Do Something.
Better?
edited 20th Mar '12 9:53:47 AM by lu127
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Much better.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
So, where to start. The name is completely unclear as to what the trope is about. The description isn't much better. The examples seem to have no relation to either one. It seems to be any time anyone listens to a princess or at least a princess says something commanding. It really needs some help figuring out what it's supposed to be.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick