Unclear Definition (new crowner 9/18): Planet Eris

Oh, I forgot we had a redefinition crowner as well. Did someone write up a new description, or is that a to-do item? If so, I'm willing to take a crack at it if someone can remind me where the redef crowner went.

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Old crowner

I also notice that Planet Eris was discussed back in 2010 and before that in 2009.

edited 26th Jan '13 1:24:17 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Thanks, hmm, sorting out which of the options in green are and aren't mutually exclusive may take me a moment. Back with a draft soon.

edit: typo

edited 27th Jan '13 10:19:50 AM by Xtifr

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Ok, this was a bit tricky, but here's a rough draft:

---

[Squid Barbershop] is an apparently mundane setting much like modern Earth or some reasonable facsimile, except that all sorts of outrageous and fantastic creatures and events more appropriate to Speculative Fiction appear on a regular basis, with essentially no limits, as needed for Rule of Funny, Rule of Cool or even just plain Ass Pull. The setting remains Like Reality, Unless Noted; none of these creatures or events are treated as particularly unusual, or have any significant impact on the apparent normality of the setting.

[Squid Barbershop] differs from a standard Fantasy Kitchen Sink in that the underlying setting remains resolutely normal. It differs from Mundane Fantastic in that there is no requirement for logic or consistency. Willing Suspension of Disbelief comes entirely from the percieved entertainment value of the work. Making sense is not necessarily a goal. Often comes hand-in-hand with the Law of Conservation of Normality, and may develop a complex Crossover Cosmology.

This is a popular setting for Webcomics and other light-hearted works. It often features a Flat-Earth Atheist to hold the lampshade.

---

I think I hit all the important points, and kept most of the useful links from the current page, but I started by describing the trope instead of starting by talking about where it's used. I figured people might find that more useful. :)

Anyway, if I left anything out, or made any glaring errors, please feel free to tell me. I definitely found this one a bit of a struggle to figure out, and I'm not entirely sure I got it right.

edit: I may also have gotten a bit word-crufty, and if so I apologize. I sometimes get that way when I'm feeling less-than-sure of myself.

edited 28th Jan '13 10:48:46 AM by Xtifr

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I have no immediate objections to the proposed description.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Looks pretty good to me.

[proofreading hat] You've got an extraneous 'from' in the third sentence of the second paragraph; "from entirely from".

edited 28th Jan '13 9:29:19 AM by johnnye

Feel free to take a moment to reflect further. For whatever reason, I'm less satisfied than usual with my proposal for a definition. Normally I find these fairly easy.

Fixed, thanks.

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One possible issue is that the new description starts off like "Like Reality, Unless Noted, but also..."

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Can you be more specific? I'm really not sure what you mean there.

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It looks like LRUN But More So.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Which part? There's no "but also" after LRUN, so I assume you mean something more abstract?

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Yeah, that description starts off like it was a description for LRUN, only with an "but also" qualifier.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Ah, ok. That was more or less straight from the crowner, but I think I see what you mean.

Maybe I can reverse it, to mention the fantastic elements first, and the otherwise mundane setting second. Let me think about it.

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Ok, I tried, and came up with this:

The problem is that now it seems to me to sound too much like Fantasy Kitchen Sink. The mundanity of the overall setting doesn't get mentioned until far too late. I actually think I prefer the original over this.

I might be able to juggle it by adding a little Department of Redundancy Department text, going back and forth between talking about mundanity and fantasticality, but I tried once, and it came out a lot longer without being a whole lot clearer.

So, I'll leave it up to the peanut gallery. Version 1, version 2, or beat on Xtifr till he coughs up some other version entirely? :)

edited 30th Jan '13 10:25:24 PM by Xtifr

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Ok, how about this. I made the distinction from Like Reality, Unless Noted more explicit:

---

[Squid Barbershop] is an apparently mundane setting much like modern Earth or some reasonable facsimile, except that all sorts of outrageous and fantastic creatures and events more appropriate to Speculative Fiction appear on a regular basis, with essentially no limits, as needed for Rule of Funny, Rule of Cool or even just plain Ass Pull. While this has some similarities to Like Reality, Unless Noted, in that none of these creatures or events have any apparent impact on the overall normality of the setting, it differs in that the viewer can expect almost any sort of weirdness to occur without warning.

[Squid Barbershop] differs from a standard Fantasy Kitchen Sink in that the underlying setting remains resolutely normal. It differs from Mundane Fantastic in that there is no requirement for logic or consistency. Willing Suspension of Disbelief comes entirely from the percieved entertainment value of the work. Making sense is not necessarily a goal. Often comes hand-in-hand with the Law of Conservation of Normality, and may develop a complex Crossover Cosmology.

This is a popular setting for Webcomics and other light-hearted works. It often features a Flat-Earth Atheist to hold the lampshade.

---

It may help to imagine whatever name we pick in place of that placeholder name.

edited 31st Jan '13 1:08:04 PM by Xtifr

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Bump. Still hoping for feedback on the draft description, but if nobody objects before we finalize the crowner, I may just run with it.

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I didn't even notice Smorgasbord Setting until it showed up in the crowner, but dang that is a sweet title. No hope of it becoming the main though, it appears.

I must be cruel, but to be kind That bad may begin, and worse be left behind

It's cute, but I think it's a little too close to suggesting merely a Kitchen Sink of some sort, and doesn't really suggest the arbitrary level of weirdness this trope needs.

edited 3rd Feb '13 11:18:53 AM by Xtifr

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I think it's better than the other choices available... World of Weirdness veers too much further in another direction, I think. Strange Smorgasbord Setting, maybe? :P

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

Sounds too much like Alien Lunch. Anyway, stop, you're making me hungry! :D

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Like Reality, Unless Noted isn't a setting, though, it's a general principle that applies to all fiction. Unless told otherwise (or unless they assume otherwise due to genre traditions), people will assume that the world works according to the rules they're used to. E.g., unless you tell them "everyone in this story is in a large space station with no gravity", they'll assume everyone lives on a planet, walks on the ground, and rests things on flat surfaces without worrying about them floating away*.

My point being, you don't need to distinguish them. If anything, Planet Eris works by slightly subverting Like Reality, Unless Noted — everything is superficially exactly like modern life, even though from extrapolating the way the real world works, you'd expect the fantastic elements to cause more fundamental upheaval to everyday life.

*I am now seriously considering trying to write a short story that keeps this fact a secret.

edited 3rd Feb '13 5:08:25 PM by johnnye

Subversions are not partial/'slight'.

edited 3rd Feb '13 7:38:52 PM by Pig_catapult

Is that supposed to be a criticism of my draft definition? And if so, and taking into account what Pig Catapult said, what would you suggest? I'm just going off of what the crowner decided, and I think the intent of that sentence is clear enough.

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"Subversion" is an English word that makes perfect sense in that sentence; I wasn't thinking of it in the Subverted Trope sense. In terms of Playing with a Trope, I suppose it's a partial aversion, in that it still sticks to the principle in most ways but ignores it when it's convenient to.

No, I was saying I think your first draft was fine. I don't think you need to "distinguish" it from LRUN, because they're different things entirely, but perhaps adding a bit discussing how the two tropes interact would be useful.

Ok, well, I don't think I'm the right person to choose between my two proposals. We seem to have one vote for the first description, and one vote for the second, and a couple of more vague statements of support. I need more input here, folks. First or second, or take a third option?

eta: posts 129 and 140 for the two drafts.

edited 8th Feb '13 9:57:21 AM by Xtifr

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