What is this, exactly?: Old School Dogfighting

Is that what the crowner says, basically?

Both Old-School Dogfighting (as applied to planes) and Space Dogfight represent violations of reality, but the reality they're violating is different for each.

Other than that, there's not much to distinguish them.

More or less, yeah.

@StarSword: Dogfighting Furballs was cut sometime ago because, IINM, it was launched prematurely.

Been trying to deal with it, but the thread is gone due to the ending of Special efforts.

• Edit: Started a new YKTTW on this under a better name: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=g9n6p1uz8u6em8ktx59qx3s0

• Also found this. What to do now?

edited 10th Feb '13 1:28:23 AM by spacemarine50

Ah, the Special Efforts forum was split into the Projects subfora. You could check for that thread you're talking about in one of them.

Actually, that thread was closed after the split and moved to the new Projects Morgue.

It was closed because it really belonged here, I think.

• A: Bump
• B: Anyone know of Standard Starship Scuffle? What do we do about that one, and Old-School Dogfighting now?

Standard Starship Scuffle seems to be the capital ship version of Old-School Dogfighting: when big ships line up and lob broadsides at each other like something out of the 1600s, instead of when single-man fighters get behind each other and fire guns like something out of the 1940s. Other than that, they don't appear to be directly related.

As far as getting this thread closed, I proposed some action, but never got a yay or nay.

edited 24th Feb '13 10:10:33 PM by NativeJovian

You never need permission to do crowner work.

Fair enough; I suppose I was mostly waiting for confirmation from other people that the sandbox pages I whipped up actually fit the crowner. And then I forgot about this thread (again) for a while.

I'll start sorting examples into their appropriate sandbox pages when I have some time, and when that's done I'll transfer it to the main namespace.

I think Standard Starship Scuffle is to Space Is an Ocean as Space Dogfight is to Space Is Air.

Bump. I just completed a full cleanup of Old-School Dogfighting (formatting, namespaces, indentation, the works).

I pulled the examples from Old-School Dogfighting that fit the new description and put them on Sandbox.Old School Dogfighting.

While we're at it, I think it'd be a good idea to change the name from "Old School Dogfighting" to just "Old School Dogfight". Makes it easier to use in a sentence; you can always just use curly brackets to add the "ing" back on if you want.

I made a few minor modifications to the sandbox version, but I don't think Ace Combat should be on the list: it's an air combat series.

...why should an air combat series not be on the example list of an air combat trope?

^...I was under the impression OSD was a space combat trope. As I explained it in an edit reason on IL-2 Sturmovik, it's spaceships acting like WWII fighters, not WWII fighters acting like WWII fighters.

edited 10th Apr '13 9:04:48 AM by StarSword

It is now, but we're changing the definition. That's the whole point of the thread. The sandbox description defines an Old School Dogfight as "a three dimensional version of Chasing Your Tail, where both parties are armed with a Fixed Forward-Facing Weapon" and goes on to say that it doesn't matter if it's planes, space fighters, submarines, Drill Tanks, or anything else — if it fits that description, it counts, regardless.

Old School Dogfight is getting the "dogfighting" part of the trope, and Space Is Air is getting the "spaceships acting like airplanes" part of the trope.

edited 10th Apr '13 9:14:16 AM by NativeJovian

Ok, never mind then.

I pulled out appropriate examples from Old-School Dogfighting and added them to Sandbox.Space Is Air.

I'll give it a few days to give people a chance to comment, then I'm launching Sandbox.Old School Dogfighting at Old-School Dogfight, and Sandbox.Space Is Air at Space Is Air. They're lighter on examples than I'd prefer, but this thread has been around for more than a year. Wiki Magic will take care of things once they're up.

Fixing wicks is going to suck, though.

What should I do about this YKTTW? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=g9n6p1uz8u6em8ktx59qx3s0

Seems like a legitimate subtrope to me. Probably worth mentioning that the slang term for a large-scale dogfight is a "furball".

edited 11th Apr '13 12:18:20 PM by NativeJovian

As I posted in the YKTTW discussion, it needs to have its description adjusted to take into account the new definition of Old-School Dogfighting, but otherwise I think it's good.

bump

We're pretty much done here. Old-School Dogfight and Space Is Air have both been launched, and wicks sorted appropriately.