Badass tropes - now on: Action Girl

Ah, the subpages. These can stay around for your scopes, perhaps as sandbox pages.

For wicks, maybe we need an additional vote on these.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I'm also in favor of a wick cut. I mean, isn't that the whole reason why we're doing this in the first place? So that we'll no longer have

• Badass: Detailed listing of every single character in the Work, with either a ZCE just stating their name or a summary of every cool thing they ever did.
  • More characters but no effort made to correct indentation on the first example.
  • Remember that time that one character who isn't a Badass did that cool thing once? Totes a Badass.

on every Work page on the wiki?

edited 22nd Sep '15 10:25:09 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

I don't see the point in cutting the wicks. It's not like they're used to mean wildly different things. I'm probably forgetting something but I don't actually remember evidence being shown that people use it for things unrelated to fighting. So they all cluster around one usage that will definitely be on the fanspeak page. What's the problem here?

Edit: Oh, I guess I see one reason we could do that. We could make a new page to replace what I've been arguing Badass is and have it more or less take the place of it. I don't think that would work very well, though, given how entrenched Badass is.

edited 22nd Sep '15 10:25:53 AM by Arha

I lol'd at TobiasDrake's example, so accurate

Maybe after this vote (if it ends the way it is now), we should have another one about whether we leave wicks or cut them?

Yeah, I think the better way would be just to YKTTW actual tropes for the meanings we suggested in the discussion (e.g., Competent Fighter, Tough And Resilient, Outstanding Willpower, etc.). The wicks that mean "Competent Fighter" would just go under there. Not all "fighting-related" Badass wicks actually fit your definition, though, or would need rephrasing to fit it.

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So, as long as we're at it. Let's discuss what new tropes might be YKTTW'd out of Badass' decaying carcass.

From what I've gathered:

• "Competent fighter".
• "Resilient".
• "Strong willpower".
• "Laughing in the face of danger".
• "Risking their life".
• "Prevailing against almost improbable odds".
• "Formidable reputation".
• "Improbable Rule of Cool fighting stunt".

Any more?

edited 22nd Sep '15 10:57:36 AM by Rjinswand

1. "Strong willpower" sounds like Nerves of Steel.
2. "Laughing in the face of danger" sounds like Fearless Fool.
3. "Prevailing against almost improbable odds" sounds like We Do the Impossible.
4. "Formidable reputation" sounds like a supertrope for The Dreaded, Famed Instory and Living Legend.
5. "Improbable Rule of Cool fighting stunt". Correct if I'm wrong, but is this Crazy Awesome?

Resilient would also probably fall under Super-Toughness or Made of Iron depending on how it's presented. Strong willpower is probably The Determinator. That basically leave competent fighter.

I think the definition discussion should wait until the crowner is closed.

How long are we keeping the vote open, anyway? Can't remember what the minimum vote count is for a call, but the Fan Speak option looks like it's almost there.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

At least fifteen votes but more generally until the votes have stopped coming in. That said, it's pretty one sided so they'll probably just let it run about three days in total. I think that was the standard? I don't usually have much to do with that kind of thing lately.

Imma say one week, given that it's a major trope.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Crazy Awesome is more someone who is visibly insane doing awesome things, while that doesn't mean you have to be the former to do so.

As for #2, they could be laughing out of well-earned experience rather than the pure foolishness that Fearless Fool implies.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

It's actual about their craziness enabling awesomeness. It's frequently misused.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

Which is just what I said.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

Redacted for being off-topic and slightly smartass-y

edited 22nd Sep '15 11:17:21 PM by Karxrida

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

@1280:

1. Fair enough.
2. As was said, it's only when the character is too foolish to realize the danger they're in. I was talking more about characters like Spider Man, who laugh in the face of danger not out of foolishness, but because they've got huge balls.
3. That seems to be a very specific subtrope, about an in-universe reputation of being able to always defy odds. That reputation might even be undeserved, built on complete lies. I was talking more about a character who often defies odds, regardless of whether it leads to such an in-universe reputation or not.
4. True; sounds like a Missing Supertrope of those.
5. No; it was actually the original meaning of Badass. Too bad almost no one actually used Badass in that way. As has been said, Crazy Awesome is specifically related to the character's craziness.

We Do the Impossible has four different types listed. Perhaps your description should be extracted from it and the trope itself refocused on a single idea.

Hm, maybe it just needs to be split from We Do the Impossible, since some examples on that page also fit what I'm talking about.

edited 23rd Sep '15 2:36:59 PM by Rjinswand

That's what I'm talking about. The reputation aspect of it could be the entire trope while ability, regardless of reputation, is split into something else.

I think this is probably major enough that we need a wiki-wide announcement, but I know everyone hates doing that.

As for the wicks, I think they should just stay under Badass and its subtropes without a need for launching or renaming a bunch of tropes, with the caveat that ZCE's get nuked—not just commented out, actually removed. And yes, just listing a bunch of characters is still a ZCE. Or rather, it's half a dozen of them bunched together to make them look like they have context through sheer weight of numbers.

edited 25th Sep '15 1:31:17 PM by Discar

How do we do that?

I think that we should have another vote re:wicks after this one ends.

My opinion is that if we go with making Badass a Fan Speak page describing all of its various meanings, the wicks will make no sense. "Badass" could mean almost everything, up to just "cool" and "awesome". It's better to make actual tropes that have actual definitions that these examples support, rather than leaving a huge mess.

Agree on the ZCE, though.

If you're talking about the wiki-wide announcement idea, the mods can do it. It's pretty rare, though.

I would support the motion for a wick cut in addition to removing ZCEs. In addition to the wiki-wide misuse already pointed out, I wouldn't be surprised if at least a quarter of the wicks to Badass, even when they're not listing every character who ever did something vaguely awesome, are part of this badly indented style:

• Badass: General John Steele. Let's count the ways:
  • Badass Army: His soldiers can sure put up a fight.
  • Badass Normal: He's good with his fisticuffs. (used anyway by tropers who don't read descriptions despite not having any Supers around)
  • Badass Mustache: His mustache.
  • Cultured Badass: He likes to read poetry.
  • Four-Star Badass: He's in charge of an army. See Authority Equals Asskicking.

edited 26th Sep '15 3:21:20 AM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"

Yes, I see that a lot as well. Removing badass as a wick would remove the lynch pin for stuff like that.

Well if the crowner sticks with making the page example less, we could then do a crowner for what to do with the wicks.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

FWIW, I am going to run this crowner until the first October.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman