Alright, so in TRS Badass Gay came up for discussion and it was agreed that there appears to big problem with the Badass X tropes in general, which needs to be sorted out until something can be ruled on for Badass Gay.
Here's a courtesy link: TRS page
. And Badass page with its subtropes. You can also visit the sandbox page here.
Noted Problems include:
- Tropes are just listings of characters people thing are badass who happen to have a certain trait. (The Badass + Trait Problem)
- Badass X as a naming scheme is actually very vague and doesn't give a lot of insight into what the character trope actually is, assuming it is a trope.
- Badass X as a naming scheme proliferates the use of Badass + Trait 'tropes'.
Suggested things to do include:
- Make it a requirement that a badass character trope means a character is "badass because of a trait", or "badass in spite of a trait".
- Renaming away from the Badass X naming scheme as much as possible.
- Cut, redefine or re-purpose things that are just Badass + trait.
There are also a lot of tropes that seem to be valid character-types, but have the naming scheme 'Badass X', when there's more to the trope than that. There are also a lot of prop or event or whatever tropes that need to be gone through as well.
Edited by Berrenta on May 15th 2020 at 7:39:14 AM
The Other Troper
"I'm sorry that I'm "obsessed" with using the definition everyone actually uses and that the thread seems to have mostly agreed on. In basic form if not specifics, anyway."
No it's not. And you can't use your wick check, since those are to measure trope misuse, not decide trope definitions. The latter is how the term is used in media, and those uses quite frequently are in a non fighting context (but almost always in an "awesomely tough" context).
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
If you had no intention of accepting my wick check, you shouldn't have asked me to make one.
The Other Troper
I only remembered it a bit after you started (since I hadn't been on TRS for a while and forgot the difference). Plus I did bring this up before.
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
@Arha (#1001):
@crazysamaritan (1005):
UPD: Added my version of the definition (based on the Tough Fighter meaning) to the Sandbox/Badass page.
edited 9th May '15 1:29:20 PM by Rjinswand
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
If you meant "beyond what the audience would expect a person like this character would endure", then that goes back to if Alice is the best fighter of the group, I expect her to be tougher than the rest of the group.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I think he means it in the sense of "this guy is explicitly supposed to be a completely normal human being, and yet he displays strength/durability on par with superheroes who have the superpower of Super-Strength / Super-Toughness", and such cases.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
That's Made of Iron. Partially.
edited 10th May '15 7:46:46 AM by Arha
@crazysamaritan (1007):
@MarqFJA (1008): Yes, but not just that. The guy can have super abilities, just not those super abilities. E.g. the guy can shoot lasers from his eyes, but is inexplicably shown withstanding injury, etc. What you described is Badass Normal, which is a subtrope of what I'm describing.
@Arha (1009): Yes. Made of Iron is a subtrope of this.
Would like to hear any feedback on my writeup in Sandbox/Badass.
edited 10th May '15 8:50:51 AM by Rjinswand
And that's Charles Atlas Superpower.
edited 10th May '15 8:53:04 AM by Arha
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
@Arha (1011): Not quite. Charles Atlas Superpower is specifically when doing that stuff is explained by "training really hard". It's most likely a subtrope of Exaggerated Toughness.
@crazysamaritan (1012): No, I didn't say that.
Bob isn't "expected to have superpowers". He is known to have no superpowers. But he is shown doing stuff that is unexpected from a person of his ability.
Meanwhile a Tough Fighter does exactly what's expected of them — be one of the best fighters in the setting.
The Other Troper
If we go with a "tough fighter" as a trope, don't use that name. It's just going to get misused for any time a guy wins a fight through force.
Unless you think that's a trope, but what does it narrative convey?
I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
~Rjinswand, your objection does not address the tautology of the work. In fact, you repeat the anti-tautology: "he is shown doing stuff that is unexpected from a person of his ability."
You, the audience, claims that Bob is doing things that require superpowers. His abilities are shown. You then say that his abilities are higher than his abilities. Do you intend to reference Real Life in your definition?
"A Real Life Bob could not survive the abuse suffered by fictional Bob." <— is this what you mean to say?
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I mean that Bob is said to have no extraordinary ability to withstand abuse / lift very heavy things / punch through very solid stuff / etc., but is shown doing that. It's not like Bob is shown e.g. repairing a car — most people on planet Earth can't repair a car but some can. It's more like Bob is shown repairing a car in 1 minute, which should only be possible to people with some kind of superpower, which Bob doesn't have.
New Badass-related YKTTW spotted: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=jmk5ebx9is83wornkp52fcpu
Oh dear. No way that is a trope.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
That's just Handicapped Badass, isn't it?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Made a TRS thread for Soul Brotha, which at the moment is listed as a Badass subtrope. (LINK)
Another Badass-related YKTTW I've found: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=fbmjkyv8tgnpzshud7vsxzpw
edited 22nd Jun '15 11:41:52 AM by Rjinswand
I took action on those two. What they have in common is that character is capable of something amazing. "Exaggeration" or "actual ability" isn't part of it. Any kind of scale is going to be a problem.
Update post: Big Badass Bird of Prey is now at 98 wicks.
Update post: Big Badass Bird of Prey is now at 74 wicks.
God-Mayor of Sim-Kind
Obvious misuse aside, I have an few issues that I need to resolve before I can flesh out a character page that I've made. Well the first one is that nearly everyone qualifies since they survived an level or 3; but I feel that it'll be redundant to spam the page 11 times because the definition would be diluted. Second, said work is set in a world where nearly everyone except the faceless soldiers can put up a decent fight.
Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break
What unrelated tropes are you talking about? Please, I want criticism for that sandbox so we can actually get something done.
I said that people seem to agree on the basics. People have mostly stopped arguing that the trope doesn't involve fighting in some capacity, so I chose to focus on that hoping that other people might point out what was missing or there when it shouldn't be.