Downplayed Trope - Do we need this?: Downplayed Trope

The thing about giving it an Example Sectionectomy and making it a Playing with a Trope subtrope is that there would still be examples: they would just be on the trope or work page and link to the article.

Also, can we maybe get a page action crowner up in here?

edited 7th Sep '11 12:14:25 PM by BooleanEarth

What the heck is a "page action crowner"?

Empty crowner hooked.

^ Crowners are a way to collect votes on a subject. (The name comes from their original use: back when Awesome Moments was known as Crowning Moment Of Awesome, the crowners were created to collect votes on which moments were truly the most awesome.) Single Proposition crowners are for a simple yes or no vote on one option; Page Action, Image Picking, and Alt Titles crowners are for gathering and voting on several different options at once.

Just a note, many of the Playing With pages such as Exploited Trope and Conversational Troping have examples.

We can see on Fast Eddie's page that in the early days of this site, Janitor declared that the examples make the pages. They add information, and help more people get involved as they add example they know if.

Therefore, a page is to have examples unless they somehow cause problems (like loads of Natter), not just "I think this would work better strictly as a definition page".

...my suggestion for Downplayed Trope, in terms of the crowner, is that a clean-up action take place and Wiki Magic be helped along...

Whether the Playing with a Trope subpages need examples or not is irrelevant to the discussion on this trope (It's also up to opinion and don't necessarily hurt the page whether or not they are there). The issue is that the definition is ill defined and the examples don't really follow the trope.

Consider this, Exaggerated Trope is how the trope is given a colossal Lampshade Hanging to the point that you can't help but notice it's use. If a Downplayed Trope is it's opposite, that means the trope was put in use but in such a way it doesn't call attention to itself. It doesn't meant the characters are trying to dismiss the trope in dialogue.

The only example that is well explained (and I am fully familiar with the series) is Transformers Prime and how it minimizes the use of Pink Means Feminine with regards to Arcee (She's overwhelmingly blue and silver with a couple of pink highlights to denote femininity, compare that to G1 Arcee who is PINK).

The Futurama example (familiar with the series but not every episode) looks to be more like the character is Completely Missing The Point or Too Dumb to Live rather than playing with Implausible Deniability. It may be using the trope but it doesn't seem to be mildly used. It's kind of like saying the characters talk about a trope and still use it normally, that doesn't mean it was subverted. What matters is how blatantly the trope was used, not how evil a Corrupt Corporate Executive is or how guilty the butler ended up being.

edited 7th Sep '11 2:56:24 PM by KJMackley

"Exaggerated Trope is how the trope is given a colossal Lampshade Hanging to the point that you can't help but notice it's use"

No, it's played to a much higher degree. It doesn't need a lampshade hanging of any kind. Plus a colossal lampshade hanging would just be an exaggeration of a lampshade hanging.

You don't exaggerate a trope unless you are trying to draw attention to it, which is what Lampshade Hanging is all about, drawing attention to the trope (humorously or not). See the page image for Lantern Jaw of Justice, by exaggerating the chin of The Crimson Chin they are lampshading the tropes use.

That is not what a lampshade hanging is. That is directly stating there is a trope through dialog or text.

First of all, while that's true in that instance there are other instances where a trope is exaggerated without lampshading such as straight non-parody uses of Up To Eleven or Beyond the Impossible. It's just taking a trope and applying it on a grander scale or to a greater extent than is normally the case.

Secondly, I agree with Janitor's original statement that the examples are the best part of the site. I hadn't connected that with KJ Mackley's idea that we should give every page examples unless they cause natter, misuse, etc. but that sounds like a valid philosophy. Given that, it seems like the best option is to put this with the other Playing with a Trope subtropes, leave the examples, and just give it a little Wiki Magic.

Also, I added the options we've discussed to the crowner, so you guys can vote on it if you want.

edited 7th Sep '11 4:09:45 PM by BooleanEarth

Man, the numbers on the crowner are already messed up. Do nothing currently says "-2 (2 yeas, 2 nays)".

The one time I actually saw this bug manifest itself in front of me, the yea-nay count was correct and the +- number was incorrect, so I'm inclined to trust the former.

That's a weird bug. All of the other options seem to be working correctly, so that should be fine.

That example cutting option is false, because it's ALREADY a Sub-Trope of Playing with a Trope, and ALSO suitable for potholing. Whoever wrote that up seems to STILL think that the other sub tropes don't have examples, and magically cannot be potholed with them.

edited 7th Sep '11 4:22:46 PM by DragonQuestZ

I typed it up and didn't think either of those things, although I didn't know it was already a subtrope of Playing with a Trope. That's good. I changed the option to reflect this.

Well okay then.

I'm having trouble understanding the difference between the "Just help it grow..." and "Do nothing except..." options.

edited 7th Sep '11 4:50:45 PM by SonicLover

Those are basically the same as far as I see. I guess someone didn't get that and added the other one. Oh well, it doesn't matter. You're allowed to vote once on each option, so whatever.

Edit: I think both were intended in both examples, and the distinction is semantic. Besides, we should clean up the page no matter what else we do. The difference then is just "should we bother with this?" to which I say yes.

edited 7th Sep '11 6:44:30 PM by BooleanEarth

Cleaning up a page is fixing problems on the page, like bad examples, bad descriptions, bad writing on the page, etc. Wiki Magic growing is adding more wicks and examples.

edited 7th Sep '11 6:40:03 PM by DragonQuestZ

The trope was brought here because it seems unsure of itself, and it seems most everyone here agrees there needs to be something done.

As for Lampshade Hanging, it is the concept of pointing out the use of a trope and by doing so softens the "brightness" of the trope (hence using a lampshade to diffuse the brightness of a bulb). It isn't done just through dialogue (such as "Wasn't that a convenient development!") but it can be done through any of the playing with types, they are just different methods of drawing attention to the use of a trope. Robin Hood Men In Tights lampshades the Multi Shot with six arrows on one bow, but they never state out loud.

Because an Exaggerated Trope plays the trope on a grander scale it inherently calls attention to itself. I've looked through all the exaggerated trope examples and each one to me seems to be lampshading the tropes they are using, whether blatantly intentional or not (few people are aware that when something seems ridiculous it was often meant that way, see Poe's Law).

And back to Downplayed Trope, how is a butler taking the heat for the murder downplaying the trope? It sounds more like it is enforcing the trope.

I got the feeling that Downplayed Trope was an attempt to do something about the "partially subverted" matter, where people clearly feel there is such a case as a trope that doesn't feel absolutely, clearly subverted, and yet it's definitely not played straight, averted, zig-zagged, whichever.

edited 7th Sep '11 9:15:15 PM by Jeysie

Well that is in the beginning of the description. So downplaying covers not only lower degree of a trope, but taking away some of the typical elements while still counting as this trope.

Consensus is to help the page grow through wiki magic. Is there anything else that needs to be done?

Conclusion seems clear, discussion seems stalled. Should we clock this? Should the crowner be locked?

Clear consensus is to leave it to Wiki Magic. Locking.