Duplicate of Sword And Gun?: The Musketeer

The opening line of this article is "A gun and a sword (or other melee weapon) combo."

The opening line of Sword and Gun is "The child of Guns Akimbo and Dual Wielding - a character simultaneously wielding a gun in one hand and a sword in another, or another combination of projectile and melee weapon."

I don't see a lot of distinction between the two, and I think they should be merged.

The latter appears to be in more widespread use on the wiki, so perhaps it is the natural target.

The Musketeer carries both. It's a common real-world trope. Sword and Gun is about wielding both, which is generally an absurdity or Rule of Cool trope. They're related, but quite distinct.

• The Musketeer is a character type that is highly skilled with both a sword and a gun, but most musketeers only fight with one at a time.
• Sword and Gun is just about wielding both a sword and a gun at the same time for Rule of Cool.

A musketeer can use Sword and Gun, but doesn't have to, and using Sword and Gun does not make one a musketeer.

It definitely needs to be repaired then.

The entire first paragraph is about the Sword-and-gun combo, the third paragraph explains that bayonets are a special case, and only two sentences in the second paragraph even mention the character, and that's in terms of "he's proficient with both".

There's nothing to mark it as a character type trope except the name.

I don't think it's a character type trope. It's a weapon trope, like Blade On A Stick or Katanas Are Just Better. It's just happens to be a weapon trope about using two different kinds of weapons in different situations. Sword and Gun is about a particular variation of dual-wielding that's possible for characters who use The Musketeer weapon trope.

I suppose they both have somewhat misleading names though.

It should be a character type, (the swashbuckling fighter/lover/poet type, highly skilled with both sword and gun) but right now it's "a character who carries a sword and a gun, doesn't use them both at the same time, and is proficient with both"

Isn't that already under The Swashbuckler though? (Wait that doesn't exist?)

This actual trope is a real one though it shows up in Video Games a lot Raidou Kuzunoha Vs King Abaddon Raidou (the MC) only has sword and his Trusty Six Shooter (everything else is done by his summons.) Dante in Devil May Cry, Fable II etc they never use them at the same time but are available at anytime. It's the Gun version of Bow and Sword in Accord (I think that's the name.)

edited 3rd Aug '11 10:31:51 AM by Raso

Its a weapon trope and was designed as such, and as far as I can see, the description makes that plain as day. Its under four indexes relating to weapons and zilch for characters for that reason.

It sounds like a name change is in order.

Why rename? Thats exactly what the name means though Characters who are trained to wield and use a gun and a sword in combat (not always at the same time although it can happen) that's what a Musketeer does (and why they were considered Elite) and thats the trope.

edited 3rd Aug '11 10:54:06 AM by Raso

I'd make gun and sword a redirect to Musketeer? Hell, I thought it was a redirect to Musketeer, I can't imagine the amount of wrong impressions I've left behind.

I'm just really scratching my head trying to think why to keep them separate. Unless you want to just restrict gun and sword to instances where someone uses both but only once, and not a matter of course...but then is that really worth detailing?]]

After all, we don't have pages for someone who just happened to use a sword or a gun once. We have pages for the meaning behind doing so but not for simply doing so. Should there be a page for every character who happened to do this once? Similarly, shouldn't Musketeer only be about people who are expected to use both, not just skilled with both? I say merge em.

You seem to be missing the distinction entirely. The Musketeer is about people who are expected to use both weapons. Gun And Sword is a subtrope of Dual Wielding and Guns Akimbo in which you use a gun in one hand and a sword in the other at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive or anything, they're just about different things.

edited 3rd Aug '11 11:58:07 AM by Clarste

If anything, Sword and Gun could be made a subtrope of The Musketeer, as it covers Dual Wielding of a sword and gun. While The Musketeer currently covers (or is supposed to cover) characters who use a ranged weapon and a melee weapon, but only use one or the other, and are proficient in both (edging out of Emergency Weapon territory.) But you would have to expand The Musketeer and its original meaning to cover all uses of a sword and a gun, be they in unison or switched out for each other.

Its a rather narrow niche, and was originally created to cover gun versions of Bow and Sword in Accord.

I was the person who wrote the trope by the way, so I have some insight as to how the trope is supposed to read.

edited 3rd Aug '11 12:25:28 PM by GameChainsaw

So basically, Ciaphas Cain would be an example of The Musketeer, because he is damn good at using both his laspistol and his chainsword. Sometimes he uses Gun And Sword, but sometimes he just uses one or the other.

They're clearly seperate, though I guess you could rewrite it to be a bit clearer. Seems fine to me, though.

Actually, Captain Titus from the upcoming game could qualify: he has a melee weapon and also ranged weapons, and while he does use Gun And Sword with the Plasma Pistol and Bolt Pistol, he is always The Musketeer, even when he's using a Bolter (closest thing a Space Marine has to an Assault Rifle), he can pull out his Chainsword (or other melee weapon).

edited 1st Sep '11 6:02:46 PM by TheInferno