SATAN IS REAL!

Assume, for the sake of argument, that (a) there's a real supernatural force behind all evil and (b) we all agree that people should be discouraged from joining in with his eeevil plans. How would you use art/literature to do this?

The problem is, because of tropes like Evil Is Cool, Evil Is Sexy and Draco in Leather Pants, media portrayals of Satan often end up making him seem sympathetic, outright awesome or at worst comic. Any portrayal of The Horned One by fundamentalists is practically guaranteed to make you want to sign up for his cause.

Personally, I'd say there are two things to avoid - don't make it look like being Satan's disciple guarantees lots of sex and don't emphasise the rebel against God stuff - the world is full of people looking for something to rebel against. Any other thoughts?

I think it's also got a lot to do with Satan being portrayed as being the surveyor of any "sin" that people could plausibly want to do. There's no distinction between murder and telling a lie, for example. It's the whole "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality.

edited 3rd Jul '11 12:34:39 AM by DrunkGirlfriend

When I read this thread title I thought I saw Santa. I was happy for a moment.

This really doesn't work as because evil is relative. Really no way to have this conversation.

Evil Is Cool only because of repression and denial. We want what we're not supposed to have, ergo the forbidden is desirable. If people were more honest about who they were and what they wanted, such tropes (and by extension such facets of society) would not exist.

I'll grant that such is a gross oversimplification, but still...

If he really existed then he could be analyzed in a scientific way, and that would be the most effective way both to deal with him and talk abut him. Is he fed by evil acts? Which ones? Can he be reasoned with? In what way, if at all, is he a threat to humanity? Can he be nuked or otherwise destroyed? What can people do to keep him at bay?

Then you can get everyone behind dealing with him - all religions and none. And people have a rational, practial list of things to avoid in order to stop this creature from being a problem - dealing with Satan becomes the same as dealing with anotther flu outbreak. And you take away most of his allure too.

The devil is traditionally a Trickster character, so I think he'd be most likely to disguise himself and try to wreak havoc through others. Maybe get into a position where he could influence world leaders or something, or one particularly powerful world leader.

I thought you meant this: [1]

How do we make Satan unappealing? We don't. He was designed with the specific intent of being appealing. Sinning often engages our baser desires and is therefore fun.

Buscemi - Actually, I did have the Louvin Brothers in mind when I thought up the title. I'm not at all familiar with their music but that album cover's hilarious.

the entire point of ye olde literature was that Satan is appealing and sin was awesome but that God will fuck you up for it. Unless we're completely revamping the character and the story line this won't work.

I'd be willing to bet that he would actually be writing things himself. The Bible states that he still hanging around here on Earth, so I could see him as even being a corrupt corporate executive or something.

Specifically he would probably write groundbreaking works that inspire other writers and cause controversy.

edited 3rd Jul '11 10:51:39 AM by TheMightyAnonym

I'd join up, nothing wrong with a bit of evil.

I would seek to study and evaluate him and his mind if I could somehow manage it without being burned alive or some such. If I could find the real him in the first place and actually get truth out of him that is...

edited 3rd Jul '11 12:47:26 PM by Aondeug

This scenario seems a wee bit more complex to me than a strict case of Black-and-White Morality. For one, Satan being the enemy of God and enslaver of souls is mostly Word of Dante. Satan ruined Job and tempted Jesus, but with God's permission, so as to test the faith of his servants. It's not even certain if this Satan is the same as Lucifer, the fallen archangel. That said, a long time passed between the recording of the Pentateuch and that of Revelations, which in turn leaves plenty of room for Canon Discontinuity and 'creative' interpretation of previous writings. Plus, it's been a while since I studied Judeo-Christian mythology to any great extent, so I could be talking out of my ass.

The second issue is, there's been a lot more literature promoting God's side of the conflict than there has for Satan. As we all know, history is written by the victors, or at least the side with more scribes, so who's to say God isn't merely passing the buck along? After all, by His own reckoning, He was the one who supposedly created created the Tree of Knowledge, as well as the tempting serpent (who is only non-officially named as Satan). Some of his conduct in the OT wasn't exactly what you'd call loving or merciful either. Was the NT just a PR job? Hmm.

So, I'm not exactly inclined to trust either side, not until one proves themselves to be trustworthy, or moreso than the others. In any case, I hope a double shottie works as well on angels as it does on demons.

edited 3rd Jul '11 1:00:19 PM by DarkDecapodian

For all we know, mayhaps Satan is much like One Of Us, and believes he can do better specifically because he would use omnipotence to make things into a utopia, and his real intention with Job was an attempt to make God look bad by showing him to be cruel.

Then again, he could just be really pissed off and hopes to take as many people with him as possible into Hell.

I'm not sure that it's possible to ever portray a side as universally unappealing.

Not having read Dante, I still recall reading somewhere that Satan is basically just a subservient agent of God? Imprisoned in the lowest floor of Hell, and not really conducting any affairs?

asdf

edited 4th Jul '11 4:11:07 AM by SoberIrishman

The biggest problem that I see is that the idea of Satan is that, being the tempter, and one who inspires sin, Satan never judges us, never demands anything of us, and is present with us all the time. I'm reminded of Pacino's speech at the end of The Devil's Advocate, where he, as Satan, makes much the same point.

Traditional Christian doctrine gives us a choice between two supernatural powers. The first calls us sinners worthy of death, judges us, threatens us with punishment, is on the record as committing mass murder, killed his own son, and demands that we worship Him. The second tells us to be happy, to indulge our impulses, to seek pleasure of the flesh, makes no demands, deals out no punishments, and doesn't judge us for our imperfections, and never harmed anybody of his own volition. Which would be a better friend?

I mean really, if you read the Bible it's clear that the being called Satan or the Devil or whatever never did anything we could call evil. The only crime he may have committed is disobedience to an unjust authority.

So back on topic, the only way I can think of would be to ascribe some good qualities to God and bad qualities to Satan.

Just because something sounds good doesn't mean it will have long consequences.The thing is about Satan he will sound like he is here to liberate us but is really a person who is trying to take us down a path that we can't return from.Take for instance the Coachman from Pinocchio.He might seem kind to let the boys indulge in every vice and manner in his park for free but he has an ulterior motive.He wants to trap the boys in his theme parks so he can turn them into donkies and sell them off to a fate worse than death.Just because the right path doesn't sound all rainbows and sunshine doesn't mean you forsake for the wrong path that looks good but is really a trap.Satan is like the Coachman because he really doesn't care about anyone but makes it seem like he does but really wants to profit from the destruction when people make bad choices.

The way I saw the devil looking at all of his appearances in culture, satan's only crime was going against god because he thought angels deserved just as much of gods love as humans, and he was backhanded out of heaven for it and sent to hell to be tormented FOREVER!! I feel obliged to sympathy with him somewhat.

If that is the case then I do feel sorry for him, and if that particular God does exist, he'll be feeling my wrath several decades down the line.

If there's a real supernatural force behind evil, quite frankly blaming it on "the devil" is probably just a really nasty bit of scapegoating.

Of course, given the fact that the God would attempt to hide it behind the actions of another indicates that either that God does care about what its worshippers think about it to a degree, or its not as all-powerful as it appears.

Satan was an entity employed by God to test people's faith.