Rename: Eccentric Mentor

Even tough I admit Harry Potter is insanely popular. The trope name is very bad.

The only problem I see with renaming is that this trope is already very widespread toughs ?

The Dumbledore found in: 315 articles, excluding discussions.

This title has brought 531 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.

hmm its needs some redirects at the very least. Senile Old Guy Hidden Badass? Senile Old Master Hidden Badass?

edited 14th Feb '11 11:40:10 PM by Raso

^ I like it

There is more to the trope then that.

Honestly, I don't like the title, and it's not that I want to defend the original name, I just don't think this suggestion is a good one.

Ok after this convo and the convo in the image picking thread yes this really needs a rename.

As I said in the other thread...YES I agree, if people feel the need for a rename and this doesn't get the point across enough-then YES it does need a rename. But this new suggestion is no better than The Dumbledore. They both don't sound or feel right. The ONLY thing the title Dumbldore has going for it-is just because he's a famous character from an incredibly popular book series. (if we go by that logic than this trope should be called TheIroh or something generic like that)

But the same arguments can be made for other tropes like Agent Scully, Agent Mulder, The Wesley, The Scrappy, The Obi-Wan. They are this because they are the Most Triumphant Example. I doubt you are going to get anyone SPECIALLY with a huge fan following, to get them to change their mind.

The senile old man, meh....it just doesn't seem that good, I can't put my finger on it, but for some reason I like it no better than the original trope name. I just can find no love for either the original or the new idea.

edited 15th Feb '11 12:09:29 AM by marheavenangel89

It's doing good. Some redirects wouldn't be amiss though.

Have we checked for misuse? Is it being used for the character himself, regardless of the trope?

I don't know, I don't know why the sudden interest in totally redoing things. Because I am not seeing any impressive suggestions for the trope rename or image, if there was a reason, then I'd love to understand why it needs to be changed, because so far...I see no reason.

a very quick scan (Like the first 4 non-work pages I clicked on) it seems to be the case. Awesome McCoolname, Anime & Manga, For Your Own Good, Love Potion all link Dumbledore to The Dumbledore.

edited 15th Feb '11 12:45:09 AM by Raso

^They seem like very good reasons for a rename.

ok not sure why some of those things link to dumbledore. But maybe it's not dumbledore that needs to be changed....maybe figure out WHY those things are linking.

I think for now, just leave as it be-because I don't see how something better can be created.

I think just make some redirects.

edited 15th Feb '11 6:30:51 AM by marheavenangel89

That doesn't remove the fact the name is horrible.

If The Umbridge can get renamed, then The Dumbledore can too. The hell with what the haters have to say.

how come anyone that opposes a rename is a hater? It seems the hate usually comes from the people wanting the rename, they hate the current one (in fact a lot of rename threads have titles like "We GOTTA be able to come up with a better name than this" or "For the love of all that is holy, rename this" and similar sentiments). And having said that, I hate, hate, hate, and loathe Harry Bloody Potter and support a rename of all Potter named tropes.

The power of hate endorses this rename.

edited 15th Feb '11 9:49:06 AM by CrypticMirror

I never said that everyone who opposes is a hater.

Let's just rename this on the principle that that it's discouraged to have character named tropes.

But in all seriousness, what's the mis-use to proper-use ratio n this thing so we can decide whether or need we need any more reason to change this.

I oppose that principle, but support the rename for reasons given.

I'll do a brief random wick check.

Is The Dumbledore being potholed to refer to the character and not the trope?

• Familiar: No.
• WMG.Kingdom Hearts Open Two: No.
• Shoot Your Mate: Yes.
• Accidental Murder: Yes.
• Adopt the Dog: No.
• All Deaths Final: No.
• A Wizard Did It: No.
• Benevolent Boss: Yes.
• Companion Cube: No.
• Drowning My Sorrows: No.
• Final Fantasy V: No.
• Good Wings, Evil Wings: No.
• Pantheon.Heroes And Villains: No.
• Harry Potter Into The Fire: Yes.
• BewareTheNiceOnes.Literature: Yes.
• Magic Shop: No.
• Men With Brooms: No.
• Nobody Over Fifty Is Gay: Yes.
• Obfuscating Stupidity: Yes. (And a no as well.)
• Obi-Wan Moment: Yes.
• Old Master: No.
• Overly Long Name: Yes.

Houston, we have a problem.

edited 15th Feb '11 10:42:41 AM by troacctid

Actually, out of these, only the first two plus Nobody Over Fifty Is Gay are misuse.

The rest of them are about him being a mentor, teacher, or being foolish, and all of these are appropriate situations to mention that he is also an example of The Dumbledore as a trope.

"Dumbledore has x and y quirks" isn't misuse any more than "Bob has x and y quirks".

edited 15th Feb '11 11:22:16 AM by EternalSeptember

Correct. If Dumbledore is being The Dumbledore it's not incorrect to pothole him to the trope that shares his name. Just like it wouldn't be bad to Pot Hole Mario to The Mario if you were talking about him being a balanced character.

Revisiting the "Yes" wicks to check again.

Is the pothole being used in a context where The Dumbledore is relevant to the example?

• Shoot Your Mate: No.
• Accidental Murder: No.
• Benevolent Boss: No.
• Harry Potter Into The Fire: No.
• BewareTheNiceOnes.Literature: No.
• Nobody Over 50 Is Gay: Yes.
• Obi-Wan Moment: Oops, this should have been a "No" on my first list. Typo.
• Overly Long Name: No.

Misuse still stands. I can check some more wicks too, if it's necessary.

• Benevolent Boss: the trope itself is another authority trope, therefore it is relevant to exactly what kind of authority figure he is.
• Harry Potter Into The Fire: Specifically lists it in a list of other "teacher tropes", like Stern Teacher, and Badass Teacher.
• Beware the Nice Ones.Literature: "Dumbledore is about the nicest old professor you could hope to meet as well as being the single most powerful wizard on Earth."
• Overly Long Name: is a comedy trope, that sets up Dumbledore as a goofy character. It's relevant to show that here the trope is played for laughs, and not setting him up for one of the other uses of the trope.

edited 15th Feb '11 1:04:12 PM by EternalSeptember

^Even with that in mind. The nama doesn't explain the trope at all. I even saw the movies and yet the trope name wasn't self explanatory at all.

It's a very commonly used trope, and it isn't misused for any other.

If the worst thing that could happen with it is that it is commonly used in references to a certain character who is an example of the trope, but some of the wicks are a bit gratuitous, that might not be a big enough reason to change it.