- Does this make sense or not?
- No. Delia Surridge's diary consistently refers to V as the *man* in Room 5.
- It's explicitly stated by Finch that V has removed pages from Dr. Surridge's diary so that the full truth about him/her is never discovered. Who's to say V didn't also change some parts of the text so that they say "man" instead" of "woman"? That way s/he can make sure no one will know who s/he is.
- Well, Valerie was a lesbian. It's possible that she got a sex change. Not sure if that medical procedure had been invented at the time of V For Vendetta, but after all, this is an alternate history we're talking about.
- You are assuming that Lesbian = Transsexual. It doesn't. It's actually more likely that Delia might have referred to her as a "man" because someone like her would consider lesbians unfeminine.
- Transgender Troper here, Gender Reassignment Surgeries have existed since 1935, so they certainly were in existence during V for Vendetta. However as noted above, you are incorrect to assume that just because she's a lesbian that it would indicate that she would want the surgeries.
- That assumes she had a choice. It's entirely in-keeping with the views of the fascist government as presented that they could have forcibly reassigned Valerie's gender (or simply referred to her as a 'he' on paper) because she was a lesbian, possibly (given that it was an experimental facility) as part of some sort of twisted experiment into sexuality.
- It's unlikely that an anti-LGBT regime would provide SRS, forced or otherwise. More likely is that V was referred to as a man by the facility's staff despite identifying as a woman, perhaps in part as an aspect of conversion therapy to "fix" V's gender identity. This is how conservative governments and individuals (particularly in Western countries) tend to deal with transgender individuals. V's genitalia have nothing to do with this identity. Personally, I'd say there's definitely sufficient subtext in the comics to assume V was intended to be transgender, however there isn't quite enough material to know the extent of V's transition or even which direction it went. It's even entirely possible they were nonbinary or genderfluid. However, for the purposes of narrative streamlining, I'm inclined to think being a transwoman (probably pre-op, and possibly even without access to HRT - and if so, almost definitely subject to HRT reversal while a prisoner) is the most likely scenario.
- Well, Iran is notoriously homophobic, and it lets people get sex changes. However, this has led to a bunch of gay people being pressured to get SRS...
- V's wearing a mask at all times. It is possible that V is actually several people amongst whom the man from room 5, Valerie from room 4, and maybe others. It would explain how he is able to do so much.
- If you've read all the notes about it, it becomes obvious that V is some sort of transsexual. Why? It was based on a different short story, by the same two people, that was meant to be this graphic novel. The main character was a Transsexual. This character is also black. Considering how easily Evey disguises her feminine figure, it's pretty easy to guess that V is probably not male.
- This troper is a little perplexed by this whole debate. V could be Valerie and the man in Room 5, in the sense that Valerie is actually a transgender man, but it's hard enough to get well-intentioned medical professionals not to call trans* people by the wrong pronouns and gender, let alone their malevolent captors. The notion that V is several different people is an appealing one, but I think having V be Valerie robs at least that particular V's devotion to Rita (if there ever was a Rita, and thus a Valerie) of its poignance.
- The problem is that the diaries list both Valerie as a lesbian, and V as a man. It's entirely reasonable that the government would have continued to refer to a transwoman as "he", but they wouldn't then have referred to her as a lesbian. It's possible that V was a transman (who the government might have classified as a lesbian, if they had a relationship with a woman), but if they felt he was a lesbian because they refused to accept his gender, then they wouldn't then have referred to him as a 'he'. A much simpler explanation is that V is a man (possibly a gay one, explaining why he was put in there) who was inspired by Valerie.
- No. Delia Surridge's diary consistently refers to V as the *man* in Room 5.
- At least in a meta-sense, Valerie was the original V. Wasn't V supposed to be a doll like transgender hero in the early stages? That fell through due to executive meddling. V as we know him was passed on the legacy from V. Evey took up the mantle by V putting her through what he did, i.e. recreating Valerie handing off the mantle to her in a way. There is a parallel universe where V is Valerie where the executives did not meddle.
- ...Or, somewhat born from this theory, what if V was Ruth? Valerie's lover? Maybe Valerie didn't know that she was in the next room, or maybe Ruth took drugs that made her lose her memory, changed her physique... It would be touching, considering the shrine V dedicates to her, if V were really Ruth and somehow remained loving Valerie in spite of losing her past memories.
- It's worth noting that Valerie is literally one of only two people explicitly ruled out by Alan Moore. (Along with Evey's dad, of course.)
- If there's a source for that beyond this TV Tropes page, that'd be fantastic. If there isn't, V is only not Evey's dad, Charlie's aunt or Whistler's mother.
- Another trans troper. Valerie thought they were a lesbian, and they were assigned female at birth so they were raised as a woman. Then they realized they're actually a straight trans man. That makes the most sense.
- Both are charismatic, have superhuman reflexes, are very intelligent. Adrian even signs his letters with a "V" in Watchmen.
- After the events of Watchmen, Veidt leaves his Antarctic base and goes to England. He abandons his role as Ozy and takes on the role of V in order to take action again. V never actually was in a concentration camp, he was Adrian Veidt. He is hiding his identity behind the mask, not physical scars.
- my theory: the world which Veidt created comes apart at the seams when Rorshach's book makes headlines and he is forced to go into hiding. Relations between the countries deteriorate even farther than they were before the massacre. Nuclear war erupts and a fascist government takes control of England. Veidt, who was hiding out there under an assumed name, was imprisoned due to his (suspected) homosexuality. While there, he is driven insane but at the same time, his genius intellect and powerful body enable him to escape. He then spends his life trying to save the world he helped destroy.
- V also created a story about a fictonal prisoner to give to Evie, who believed it. This makes it plausible that he could have been able to fabricate his own history as well.
- I'm pretty sure that story about Valerie was real.
- This is oddly supported in V's dialogue as well... "I killed you ten minutes ago" ring any bells?
- It is mentioned that artists and other such individuals were placed in the concentration camps, Since Alan is a fairly controversial writer, it would make sense that the government of the comic would see him as a danger.
- That's impossible. V has no magical powers, Alan Moore has several.
- Doesn't he? V destroys his cell using only gardening utensils and decoration. Even MacGyver would have trouble pulling that off. Using piles of dirt and strategically placed candles for it seems just like the kind of thing a mage could pull off...
- Dirt? No. Fertilizer, though, is very flammable, and has ingredients in it that can make it a potent explosive.
- US Tropers might recall that Timothy Mcveigh used a truck full of fertilizer to blow up the Oklahoma City Federal Building, prompting regulatory changes in the types and amounts of fertilizers sold to the public. And the requiem played before Mcveigh's execution was titled 'Ave Atque Vale', which were, coincidentally (?), V's last words.
- Since V For Vendetta was written and published years before the Oklahoma City bominbgs, yes, it was a coincidence.
- Doesn't he? V destroys his cell using only gardening utensils and decoration. Even MacGyver would have trouble pulling that off. Using piles of dirt and strategically placed candles for it seems just like the kind of thing a mage could pull off...
- How does he hide his beard?
- The experiments performed on him in the camp destroyed his beard and made him unable to regrow it. The trauma of this was part of what made him become V, and his choice of a mask which carried a small beard itself was an attempt to, in some small measure, replaced his loved lost facial hair.
- Impossible! That beard is pure chaos seeping through Alan Moore's pores. Nothing conceivable by man nor God could destroy it.
- Alan Moore does not wish his beard to be visible, as that would undermine his anonymity. Ergo, his beard is not visible.
- The experiments performed on him in the camp destroyed his beard and made him unable to regrow it. The trauma of this was part of what made him become V, and his choice of a mask which carried a small beard itself was an attempt to, in some small measure, replaced his loved lost facial hair.
- A Clockwork Orange was England of the 70's, imagined from the 60's. V for Vendetta was 1990's England imagined from the 80's. The latter is simply the future of the former. By the time Alex is an adult, Norsefire has arisen, replacing the British government of Alex's youth (the 1970's, as imagined from 1962). Alex develops a political conscience. After being sent to the Larkhill Resettlement Camp by the Party, Alex's old files from the Staja are discovered, his captors learn of his treatment by the old government, and decide to subject him to Delia Surridge's experiments. After Larkhill, Alex dons a Guy Fawkes mask and becomes the professional anarchist with his reservoir of horrorshow ultraviolence. Like Alex, the V persona is extremely violent, with a penchant for sophisticated tastes in music and culture. He loses the nadsat, but compensates by taking up the mannerisms of a literature professor while fighting corruption.
- Was just thinking about this, myself in that V could be a means to justify movie!Evey's apparent rebellious streak, so she "creates" him.
- Actually, this theory doesn't work for the movie version, because security cameras saw both of them on the roof at the begining. On the other hand, it explains why no one ever hunted Evey in the graphic novel.
- Alternatively, V is really EFG...
- Explains how in the otherwise-Crowning-Moment rooftop speech, nobody realizes that Codename V's voice suddenly gets approximately ten years younger and a genderflip.
- It's implied that the mask heavily distorts the voice.
- Three things: 1) I'm a female tenor, 2) the things he underwent might have changed his voice, 3) How many people have heard him speak?
- Most of London, due to the earlier broadcast.
- But it's all written word. Who's to say they don't have similar voices?
- This is more or less a completely logical guess.
- This troper didn't realise until after reading that she probably wasn't supposed to see V as a sociopathic Wicked Cultured gay guy.
- Well, you're definitely supposed to see him as Sociopathic and Wicked Cultured, in fact Moore was shocked that a lot of people saw him as being a morally-justified hero.
- There were a lot of Jews on Broadway (Google "jews broadway" and you'll see what I mean). V loved theatre and drama. I really don't think that it is too much of a stretch to say that he was Jewish, even though the whole Jews and Broadway thing was more in the early days of Broadway.
- I've got to say, I've gotten so used to people using the historical present when talking about fiction — ie., everything is put in the present tense — I get all wibbly when I see someone using the past tense in an otherwise-appropriate context.)
- If the comic version of V was Jewish, then the film version of V was Muslim.
- But this troper is straight and Wicked Cultured to a degree, what makes V necessarily gay?
- The fact that he was effectively in a concentration camp shown to be mostly made up of people of color and GLBT people.
- Nothing in particular, it's just that gay men supposedly make up a disproportionate number of musical theatre aficionados, so it seems like an appropriate guess. Claiming that V's personality type means he must be gay is inaccurate, but it's just meant facetiously... also, you're probably not as Wicked Cultured as V if you don't commit acts of terrorism and then write musical numbers about it, though (don't take this as a recommendation).
- It's considered official canon.
- Also, to answer the question above of how "a straight gentile would write and perform a musical-theatre-type song", he was an aspiring artist who dreams of Broadway, but wants to do more to support the anti-government protest. Or because of his polticial views he was blacklisted by the goverment, thus destroying his chances at Broadway. This led him to join the protests. Everything in his hideout are sentimentals (of his old life) and other stuff he saved from being destroyed or taken away by the government.
- Adam Susan decided to impose his own brand of "justice" in the world after a mugger killed his parents before him when he was a child. He dedicated himself to stop criminals, and he went just a little nuts... after the nuclear war, he used his inherited money and power to build a new totalitarian government. Then he got fat.
- This is a good theory, but I think Finch is Batman and not Gordon. That way, Dominic can be Robin.
- Seen this way, the entire story is a Perspective Flip on Batman.
- But he did fail in an epic way (destroying the establishment)....
- Sean Fausz is so fat he can't do half the stuff V can so Epic Fail Guy is not V.
- Encyclopedia Britannica would also be an appropriate Norsefire, since it is British....
- Fools, We all know Norsefire is Scientology!
- It's obvious that Norsefire is The Ministry of Truth aka Fox News
- Peh. A least FNC's pundits encourage debate on their shows. Now MSNBC, on the other hand...
- Norsefire is both or neither of the above and V is happily playing them against each other. Why? To get people's attention and make them notice things. The people working at both are just accidentally play into his schemes.
- It's obvious that Norsefire is The Ministry of Truth aka Fox News
- So, V is moot?
- And both live in eccentric places surrounded by odd items and allow very few visitors.
- The film shows us his face straight after he walks through fire. It's all black and cindery. This troper actually thought it was a mistake to show us what remained of his face so clearly...
- Schizophrenia and Dissociative Identity Disorder aren't the same thing; that's a lazy and possibly very harmful stereotype (I don't know enough to confirm it is harmful, but most stereotypes are, anyways, so). Her having DID is fairly plausible, in this troper's opinion, since it's usually caused by childhood trauma, and her having a traumatic childhood does seem likely. The question would be how they'd interact, which, since (again) I don't know enough about DID to have a clear-cut answer to, I can't say completely disproves this theory, but does break my suspension of disbelief; another question would be why V died and Every survived, when if they were both shot neither should've survived, and if neither was shot, there was no reason for V to die.
- The experiments gave him a voice.
- It's a possibility, but unlikely. In the book at least, the moral conflict of whether or not V's actions are justified is central to the plot. His actions are so morally outrageous and extreme because of his time at Larkhill - and when Evey takes over she becomes a calmer, more rational V - someone no longer marked by a lust for vengeance.
- Sub-guess: Different parts of V's story were added by different Vs. Valerie's story, for example, was added in by Valerie in a way that explained how the Larkhill prisoner knew her story or a prisoner from one of the concentration camps or a different prison. The V who trained Evey has his/her own reasons for hating Sutler/Susan personally (and perhaps was the only V to be Wicked Cultured; maybe he was imprisoned for being a stereotypical gay, but transferred to a low-security facility or banished when it was discovered that he really did like ladies and not gentlemen).
- Before Dr. Surridge dies, she asks to see V's face "again", and he takes his mask off. If V was someone else than the man from Larkhill, surely she would've been very surprised, but she looks calm and tranquil. So clearly she saw the face she was expecting to see.
- Then again, she described him as ugly earlier, but described him as "beautiful" before her death. Whether this is due to a symbolic change in perception on her part (as suggested on the comic's main page) or because whoever is V in that panel is a different (and more beautiful) person than the V she saw before, is left up to you.
Furthermore, not only might V have believed in government, he might have been a member of the Norsefire party during its early reign. Then, he either grew disillusioned with fascism and so was thrown into the Larkhill concentration camp, or was sent there due to some other offense and during his time in the camp lost his belief in government and was reborn as V. The reason for this theory is because it would explain how V is so effective and dangerous in his fight against the government; he is intimately familiar with its workings and structure because he was previously a member of it. And it also means that he was propably someone high up in the party's hierarchy, or someone who was essential to its takeover of Britain, and who later fell and was stricken from all records as a traitor. This would be the reason for how he manages to blow up important government structures, how he manages to wrest control from all surveillance equipment from the party and how he is able to hack into and control the Fate computer (perhaps he was one of its designers). It might also be from them that he learned the necessity of using ruthless methods to establish his ideal society.
It is quite possible, since we never see his face, that several people assume this identity.
V was either one of the early party leaders, along with, Susan, Lilliman, and Prothero, or only a few levels removed from them. V's ambition and ruthlessness, displayed in the last days of the revolution that brought Norsefire into power was reason enough for the other leaders to send V off to Larkhill. There,influenced by Valerie's letter, V had a revelation. Surrounded by everyone the party hated, and at the center of a key part of Norsefire's vision, the party's former rising star saw Norsefire in a new light, and chose not to lie down and die. Instead, V chose vendetta as both a response to Norsefire's betrayal by sending them to Larkhill, and as a form of redemption, as V might have felt some responsibility for the rise of Norsefire.
- This and "V is a former Norsefire supporter, or at least someone who believed in a strong government and the supremacy of law" are even better theories than my "V was a political prisoner" theory. I can also accept those two as my headcanon.
- I wrote this, and in retrospect, there are some problem with this theory. One problem comes from how Norsefire's elites did not recognize V, dispatching the Finger to find out who V was even after seeing and hearing V's body language and voice. If V were a former Norsefire elite, party members such as Prothero and Lilliman should recognize something of V when they came into contact. Second, if you have a high ranking political prisoner, and you decide to use them as a test subject in a horrific medical experiment, the last thing you want to do is give them something dangerous like gardening tools or fertilizer. Even if V didn't know how to use the fertilizer to escape, attacking guards and tunneling out both seemed like viable options with the tools. This could be an example of Prothero picking up the Villain Ball, but it seems reckless compared to everything else Norsefire did ( such as conquering England, maintaining order after nuclear war, and treating V as a serious threat).
- His missions are assassinating high-ranking members of an oppressive government.
- The Norsefire Administration is part of the Templar Order, and Adam Sutler is a Grand Master. All their talk about "unity" and "faith" sounds like medieval and Renaissance Templar rhetoric. "We need to make them remember....Why!They!Need!Us!" likewise.
- He uses stealth and throwing knives as part of his arsenal.
- His hideout is underground and it stores many cultural treasures. Several Assassin's Creed games show the Assassins as being big on learning and artistic freedom.
- He trains Evey to be his successor by making her understand his interpretation of the Creed.
- Part of his objective is to convince the populace to overthrow their Templar masters, echoing Ezio Auditore's belief in the common man.
(This is going on the movie, however. I haven't read the graphic novel.)
- This can't be, as V wouldn't have had any access to the ridiculous surgery capable of making his face look that plastic (just to start) and before someone he kills dies (this troper can't remember who it was, but they're mentioned above somewhere) they request to see his face again and he takes off the mask. Not the mention any of the other times he takes the mask off.
- Unless the Fawkes mask is his face symbolically, similar to Rorschach considering his superhero/vigilante persona to be his true identity rather than Walter Kovacs and the mask he wears his face to the point that, when unmasked, he starts screaming at the officers to give back his face.
- Furthermore, the British super soldier program that gave us V (and Miracle Man, perhaps?) was an attempt to play catch up with Dr. Manhattan.
- The lack of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or the Swamp Thing dooms this.
- Not necessarily. The League exist in the Real World of Miracleman, alongside V and the Watchmen. Swamp Thing is fictional, however, and thus belongs in the Comic Book/Dream World of Miracleman.
- The lack of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or the Swamp Thing dooms this.
- The Miracleman program also produced the British character Zenith. Which would mean that given his power level, Dr. Manhattan is already well on his way to becoming a Lloigor...
- According to an interview in Warrior Magazine when V for Vendetta came out, V for Vendetta is an alternate timeline where Mike Moran never remembered his special word. During Kid Miracleman's rampage across London, the man who would have become V is killed.
- To elaborate on a theory from the Watchmen WMG, Dr. Manhattan didn't kill Rorschach at the end, he merely teleported him to rural Britain, where he was eventually sent to Larkhill. This being WMG, you can guess where this one is headed.
- So, they're both Time Lords, then, and working for NERV?
- I don't Rorschach would have anything against Norsefire. If anything he would work with them.
- That depends on how much he knows about the corruption of the Norsefire leadership. Rorschach is right-wing, but he seems more concerned with delivering his brand of retributive justice than stringing up people for Living While Black/Gay/Jewish/Whatever
- Rorscach, as screwed up as he is, hated the Nazis and was pleased when the bomb was dropped on Japan helping bring about an end to World War 2. I can't see him siding with a group who persecute and mass genocide people just for being different. Yes, Rorschach has prejudices and some deeply unpleaseant neuroses but he's not, for all of that, a complete monster. He would never support concentration camps of any kind.
- In order to support this theory, we shall have to suppose that Doc Manhattan also changed Rorschach's physique in the process of teleporting him. On the other hand, how Rorschach managed to change his way of thought (Remember "Never compromise"?) is a complete mystery.
- So, they're both Time Lords, then, and working for NERV?
- Here's the proof
- I KNEW IT!
- 'E' (Epsilon) is the fifth letter of the Greek (and English) alphabet; 'V' is the Roman numeral for '5' (yes, that's a major point in the story, anyway).... so the name "Evey" is actually "E-V".
- This troper noticed this odd little thing, and hasn't heard it anywhere else. Probably just me seeing things, huh?
- What's special about "E-V"?
- Fifth letter plus Roman numeral for 5. Also the numeral for 4 (IV) was pronounced "ee-vee", so there's a link made with Valerie, the woman an Room 4, who seems to represent all the victims of Norsefire.
- This troper thought that would have been obvious to anyone who read the graphic novel or watched the film, especially as V mentions it at the very beginning.
Evey: I'm Evey.V: Evey? E-V. Of course you are. - This troper noticed this odd little thing, and hasn't heard it anywhere else. Probably just me seeing things, huh?
- Better yet, V's real identity is Lelouch Vi Britannia. Notice the V in the middle.....
- It makes sense, both are Byronic Hero, Antiheroes of Nominal Hero.
The force that V unleashed, on the other hand, is based around no such principles or hopes for the future, just hate for the Norsefire regime. While Evey plans to help the people build a new order, of course, but that has problems of its own. She has no solid authority over anyone, and V thus doesn't stand for anything; it's only a symbol of dissatisfaction, of standing against Norsefire. Even if she did have some authority or idea for the new order, she's unwilling to try and press it upon the people. What exactly does that leave for her to do? She might try to keep a new fascist order from arising, but how can she do that without killing, or simply becoming a continuation of the exact same practices as the old V?
At this point, the best-case scenario would be years or decades of chaos, followed by a forced unification under a new regime. Worst-case would be that Britain couldn't be reunified, and instead pulling its way back out of partisan chaos, only managing to eventually coalesce into a bunch of quarrelling, bickering city-states after decades of chaotic infighting, then suffering intermittent wars for perhaps centuries afterward.
- It's my understanding that the movie plays on this a little more. But V's plan was never to SAVE England. They would either save themselves, or die. And consider that the revolution occurs about a year after his broadcast/blackout. He said they have two years. V would push them away from Fascism, but they would have to push themselves from Anarchy.
- Alternatively, since The Revolution Of Anonymous People Will Not Be Vilified, the anonymous V's in the film or Evey in the graphic novel become Big Brother (it is also possible that the Proles also remained in anarchy or merged with V and the Revolution, since in 1984 proles and animals are free). The people who opted for a totalitarian state were just given what they wanted: a totalitarian state turned up to eleven. Oh, and Winston Smith is supposed to be a replacement Evey.
- How do they cope with the normal handling of resources (which require governments), then, since Imageboards are obviously no government?
- Let's just say British government ended up being SPARTA!!!!
- Don't forget modern Japan DESU....
- The Corporations took over. After all, there's this thing called anarcho-capitalism....
- Let's just say British government ended up being SPARTA!!!!
At some point (probably when the public mood seems receptive) he leaves and founds Norsefire (which must be an entirely different party to the Conservatives because the newspaper seen during V's account lists the Tories as a losing party). This happened before the St Mary's outbreak, beause Ruth and Valerie watch one of his marches on television. Nevertheless, he must have been in power by then to launch the project. So why do this when he was already in control? Presumably because he only had a small majority and there was opposition muttering about his policies. So he does the biological weapon thing to create fear (much like the Reichstag Fire), finds the 'perpetrators' and then calls an election. This results in a huge majority (as seen in the newspaper election results) and Parliament makes him High Chancellor instead of just Prime Minister.
- I don't think that Orwell's book leaves this possibility, but I was likewise amused by the casting, as well as the way Sutler (in my opinion) looked similar to Emmanuel Goldstein.
- She had Stockholm Syndrome for V. Notice how she was falling for him and even assisted him. The whole scheme with the torture was either to break it so she would make the choice of her own free will than blinded by love, or to transfer the S.S. love to the ideal instead of him.