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This is a "Wild Mass Guess" entry, where we pull out all the sanity stops on theorizing. The regular entry on this topic is elsewhere. Please see this programme note.
Golden Sun
Notice: Guessings that deal solely with either Dark Dawn or future installments belong on the newly created Dark Dawn WMG page.

Alex, Karst, and Agatio spend most of TLA hiding on Piers' boat
Specifically, from the point where Felix's group first met Karst in Madra, up until Jupiter Lighthouse. They found the ship first, but couldn't use it, as they didn't have the Black Crystal. Karst overheard Felix's group talking about the boat, and she told Alex and Agatio about it. Once Piers opened the door on the ship, Alex and company followed them inside and hid somewhere while they exterminated the jellyfish things. Once the ship was moving again, they just decided to hang there in the lower levels of the ship while Felix did all the work. However, they got fed up with waiting while Felix went on side-quests, and emerged at Champa to try to get Felix to hurry things up. Then, they sneaked back on the ship before Felix's group made it back. After all the business at Jupiter Lighthouse, they just stole Isaac's ship.

Isaac must die
When The Wise One sabotaged the Mars Star in the beginning of the first game it gave the main character some of the ultimate power so that Alex couldn't get ahold of it even if his plan succeeded. Since it did, the obvious conclusion would be for Alex/Arcanus to eliminate the second vessel, thus gaining the full effect.

Proxians / Elfs are the result of crossbreeding between dragons and humans
Hence why the are not among the 4 masters of the elements in the Mars Lighthouse and partly why All of the ones you fight possese the ability to turn into dragons. They could also be Dragons proper, merely taking human's form (perhaps they have been forced to, ala Archaneia's dragons).

Sheba was born in the city that became the moon, Anemos, and fell to earth soon after she was born.
This seems to be the most likely scenario. Whether she fell by accident or was thrown off on purpose, is up for speculation.

All the heroes of the first two games married outside of the True Companions.
Because this would allow for more characters to run around with in Dark Dawn. Also, it would placate/infuriate every shipping faction around.
  • Then why the hell are there only 3 characters on the promo art ??! Although, screenshots have revealed more playable characters, so you might have a point.
  • Matt, Ty, and Karis could just be the starting group. You would recruit more as you go.
  • It's been confirmed that Matthew is the son of Isaac and Jenna, so that's one in-group marriage. No word, though, on if Sheba married either of Garet or Ivan, or if Mia married either of Felix or Piers.
    • Mia probably didn't marry Piers, since her daughter Nowell has a thing for him.
    • Similarly, Ivan and Sheba are probably not an item either. It is repeatedly mentioned that Karis' dad had Mind Read and that Karis doesn't, and she also talks about his frustration with it. They never make mention of her mom having it, and I think they would have, hence her mom is not Sheba.

Assuming the above doesn't happen, our new heroes are going to master two elements.
Yes, that sounds like Mary Sue material... but hey, characters can learn to use Psynergies of other elements. With the way clans of different element were always kept apart, it's very possible that marriage between two powerful Adepts of different elements never happened before. After all, Felix and Jenna's parents were probably a Venus and Mars couple, but not very powerful (see the boulder fiasco)... and Felix can use the Mars Psynergy "Move" naturally. Same goes with Isaac, maybe his dad is a Mars Adept. With parents as powerful as the heroes of the first two games, maybe the new ones are going to be completely versatile... in which case 3 characters would be enough to have all elements in the party.
  • Rumor has it that Matthew possesses the fireball Psynergy. This could be the result of the powers Isaac got from the Mars Star.
  • There's an IGN screenshot of a Megaera-looking summon that has the name "Crown" on the top screen, but of course the screens are dominated by the summon, so we don't know what he/she actually looks like). Still, I'm willing to hazard a guess that Crown will be our Mercury Adept, probably a caster-type (so as to provide balance against Matt and Ty being warrior-types). Also, I'm pretty sure Isaac's a pureblood Venus Adept — the heads of the Doom Dragon seem to indicate that Felix's mother is Mars and the other two, including Kyle, are Venus. Still, as pointed out, it's possible Isaac's Mars Star-endowed powers have an effect on Matt's Psynergy. (He uses Fireball in the obstacle course in the E3 2010 floor demo, but it's unclear whether that's Tyrell's spell or his.)
    • Move is going to be changed to a Venus Psyenergy in Dark Dawn, though it seems like perhaps it's actually unaligned like Force is.
  • Meanwhile, Matthew having Fireball was actually due to a Mars Djinni Garet lent him and Karis.
  • Jossed.
  • Well, Matthew does have Growth as a base psynergy now, and Isaac couldn't use that unless he had a mars djinni equipped.

If all the hookups happened inside the True Companions, going only with the kids' appearances a likely combination would be...
  • Isaac + Sheba = Matthew (Looks too calm to be Jenna's son.)
  • Garet + Jenna = Tyrell (He looks very much pure fire.)
  • Mia + Ivan = Karis (Green hair, purple eyes. Not Sheba + Piers because somehow I doubt they would dare officially hook up the youngest girl of the group with a fully grown man, and Really 700 Years Old to boot.)
  • Which leaves us with Yaoi Guys bachelors Piers and Felix.
    • Well, the thought of little Ivan being the one to get the first group's token girl is just too funny to pass up. However, I could see Mudshippers and Valeshippers teaming up to storm Camelot studios in that case.
    • Probably less disastrous than Camelot choosing Mudshipping or Valeshipping over the other, though. Let's be honest, that would guarantee a riot.
    • yea but if they choose some sort of widely known ship then they only have to face one "faction" of opposition that may be somewhat shielded by the supporters of the ship they chose
  • All jossed, Camelot did choose. Valeshipping wins: Matthew is Isaac and Jenna's son. Mudshippers will NOT be pleased.

Dark Dawn will be Hijacked by Alex.
It is only the worst kept secret ever. Of course, Alex is such a Magnificent Bastard that he won't walk right up and be the antagonist right away. He will instead be the man-behind-the-man for other minor villains.
  • Oh yes baby please.
  • One of the videos shows a masked man with long blue hair, and on the website under the Tsaparang villains there's a new sillhouette that has very familar hair...
  • And then it happened.
    • Arguably it's subverted, Alex does appear, but he's not the main villain and he doesn't hijack the plot. In fact, he actually helps you fight the Tuaparang at the end of the game (for his own benefit).

  • Isaac, Garet, and Jenna: Living in the new Vale, of course. Whether Jenna is married to Isaac or Garet is something I'm not going to get into here. They act as advisers to the mayor (if Garet didn't inherit mayoral duties from his grandpa) and also act as the town guard whenever trouble starts up. They will be incapacitated in some form when the Psynergy Vortexes start appearing, leading to Matthew and Tyrell taking up their fathers' mantles.
  • Ivan: Mayor of Kalay. Knowing the changes that took place in the world better than most, he started up his own (or took over Hammet's) trading business and now controls much of the new Weyard's economy. Thus, in perfect position to hand out sidequests (or Fetch Quests) to our new heroes.
    • Not necessarily Mayor, but he is indeed stated to be back in Kalay.
  • Mia: If not married to Isaac or Garet, then back in Imil. Either way, she's simultaneously acting as healer and researching any records Alex may have left behind. She will be crucial to figuring out Alex's motivations and backstory, but otherwise likely won't play that large a role.
    • Crown looks very much like a male version of Mia, so he may be her son and successor.
      • Confirmed.
  • Felix: Banished from Vale due to breaking their laws involving Sol Sanctum. Before they wise up and revise those laws, he's gone. He's currently hermiting it up somewhere in the woods and chases kids off his front lawn with Earthquake spells and shaking a big stick at them. Matthew's party will run into him during the course of the adventure and he will rip their shit up in a Hopeless Boss Fight, but then he'll realize he's dealing with his friends' children and that they have to deal with Alex in some fashion and takes them in to train them. He will get a Crowning Moment of Awesome by completely beating the crap out the current villain when they attack our new heroes.
  • Sheba: Vanished almost entirely until Anemos is somehow brought up. If the party visits there, she will be crucial to solving that subplot and will discover her (and possibly Karis's, if Sheba gave birth to her) relation to Anemos.
  • Piers: New King of Lemuria, after the expansion of the world's continents vindicates him and Hydros and discredits Conservato. Vanishes for long periods at a time because he's Active Royalty and takes it upon himself to investigate the Psynergy Vortexes. Will be crucial to figuring out their mystery, as Hydros was to solving the Lighthouses and Alchemy problem. Lemuria is in complete disarray whenever he disappears because the Senate are still a bunch of incompetent boobs.
    • Didn't you remember Piers actually being banished from Lemuria during The Lost Age? As in, never to return?
      • Hence...why I added the "vindicating him and Hydros, and discrediting Conservato" bit. Also, according to the Golden Sun wiki, during the remainder of The Lost Age, the Senate never actually implements Piers's banishment because they're too busy debating it.
      • Which makes sense because I've waltzed into Lemuria thousands of times after Piers' "banishment" and Conservato had not a damn thing to say about it.
      • Well, if you're a decrepit old politician, would you want to be the one to try enforcing a banishment on an apocalyptically powerful burly sailor and his buddies who throw comets like candy?
  • Original poster here: So yeah, like...none of that turned out to be correct, but given the cliffhanger ending, I could go ahead and push most of those to the next game (Felix, Sheba, Mia, and Piers in particular). Right?
    • Piers is sailing around in his ship, and was hanging around Tonfon and Champa in particular, and now has Rief's (formerly Crown's) little lovestruck sister in tow. So I think either the banishing finally stuck, or he just likes being out in the real world instead of boring old Lemuria. That and he's helping keep an eye on things withe other Warriors of Vale (and Imil and Kalay and Lalivero and Lemuria), particularly the Vortexes and the Mourning Moon.

Crown is...
...really Alex. First off, "Crown" sounds like an alias, and the only Adept the party needs to be complete is a Mercury one. So whether it be Obfuscating Stupidity, Laser-Guided Amnesia, or something else entirely, I'm willing to bet that that's who he'll turn out to be.

Karis is the daughter of Ivan and Mia
This has already been speculated above, but let's analyze it a bit more. Karis has purple eyes, and Ivan is the only other character with that eye color. Karis's hair color is green, a mixture of blue and yellow. Ivan has blonde hair and Mia has blue hair (though you could argue that genetics don't work that way, but this is a fantasy world where alchemy exists, so...). Karis has a little cape-thingy like Ivan, and she wears mostly white like Mia. Plus, she's a wind adept, so evidence strongly points to her at least being Ivan's daughter. To keep up with new (allegedly truthful) information given to us, this would make her Rief's sister since Ivan has been confirmed to be her father and Mia is Rief's mother.
  • Sheba had purple eyes in the games themselves.
    • Yes, but she has green eyes in the official artwork.
      • So which takes precedence?
  • For what it's worth, the actual design of the cape is very similar to Jenna's. Which does not invalidate this guess (Missing Mom, child lives with parents' friend; alternately, Jenna designs clothing for a living), but is worth noticing.
  • Even if this turns out to be false, the idea that Karis's mother is a Mercury Adept (possibly someone from outside the True Companions, as posited above) seems extremely plausible. In addition to explaining her odd hair color (by the previously mentioned yellow + blue = green theory), it also has the bonus of explaining how the Jupiter element suddenly has a series of healing psyenergy—one which, interestingly enough, is exactly half as powerful as the Mercury-aligned Wish series at the stages that have been revealed thus far.
  • Theory has been quashed by Camelot. Mia is not her mother.
    • Well, doesn't mean that Ivan didn't marry an Imilian. I'd bank on Mia's female apprentice Megan. Not sure I'd go for fellow apprentice Justin as Rief's father, though. Not too keen on mating Mia with Hot for Student.
  • Karis is Ivan's daghter. No word on her mom. I think if she was another one of the Warriors of Vale it would have been mentioned but it's not.

There will be a total of 16 playable characters in Dark Dawn
  • Quashed by Camelot.
  • So far there's already been 7 new playable characters revealed and there are two shadowed characters that likely are more, plus Old Save Bonus was one of the most lauded features in TLA that the fandom would probably implode if the old heroes aren't playable.
    • Not enough Djinn.
      • Says who? NoE confirms more than the TLA 72.
      • Link? Everything I've seen has said "over 70". 72 is over 70, and I haven't encountered anything saying "New Djinn!".
  • All Jossed. 8 characters, and while there are 11 new Djinn, you can only use them in the tutorial, so there are effectively only the same 72 as TLA.
    • Those eleven new ones sound like a Sequel Hook.
      • Actually those 11 + Solo/Flint are, in another Call Back fashion, part of the original 14 Venus & Mars djinn the player could get in the first Golden Sun. The other 71 are a mixed bag consisting of returning djinn from the GBA games and new djinn unique to Dark Dawn.
      • Sounds like a different type of Sequel Hook.
  • There are eight. Intro level you have two plus guest starring Isaac and Garet. When you strat your quest you have three, then you meet everyone else one at a time.

Anemos is the true Big Bad force, or at least the original one.

Being so high up in the air means that Anemos is pretty much proof against Gaia Falls eroding it. Not to mention that Sheba's existence so long after Anemos went sky-high means that they're perfectly capable of sustaining themselves without the rest of the world. Now consider that there's a good chance they knew that sealing off Alchemy would eventually kill the world. The possibility is that the Anemos basically gave up on Weyard (without letting the Lemurians know the true situation; note that Conservato and presumably most of the rest of Lemuria are ignorant about Weyard's true living nature) and cast themselves off from it to maintain their purity. Once Weyard is fully dissolved, maybe they can come back down and resculpt the place in their own pure image. Imagine their irritation once they find that Weyard's back to proper health...Admittedly, this doesn't explain how or why Sheba fell to Weyard in the first place. "Heretics" saving their daughter from the wrath of Anemos's rulers?
  • Alternatively, the Tuaparang waited for alchemy's return, and like suggested above, are planning on reshaping Weyard in their own image. If they have their records from the old days then they should have noticed Weyard's decline, having a bird's eye view of the continents eroding. Thus, this means that Sheba was deliberately placed on Weyard to catalyze to assist the return of Alchemy. Which she ultimately did.
  • While this is going into fourth-game speculation now, a connection between Anemos and the Tuaparang would be interesting. Or, for that matter, a competition. Giant midair battle sequence, maybe? Except that that would require Anemos to start caring about the rest of Weyard, which would be a remarkable about-turn for them if their lack of presence in earlier games is any indication.

The Shining Force and Golden Sun universes are one and the same
They were both RPG's made by Camelot, no? Besides, this IS WMG

Dark Dawn was made to mess with the shippers.
  • Face it: When the fanbase isn't making theories or sequel hoaxes, they're too occupied with shipping. So what better way to give the middle finger to the shippers than having a sequel that makes one pairing canon (Valeshipping) and none of the others specified? That's a way to mess with their heads.
    • It seems strange that Golden Sun has a large shipping fanbase to begin with, considering the series is basically a No Hugging, No Kissing story that focuses instead on The Power of Friendship.
      • Are the characters shaped like humans and/or displaying of human emotion? Yes? Then there is a perplexingly large shipping fanbase.
      • Shipping occurs in all fandoms, even in series that in which they do not fit in at all (Resident Evil comes to mind).
    • But it does make every other possible pairing among the player character bogus (all 4 of the original characters have their own, apparently unreleated children) or confirmed (Jenna) except Felix and Sheba.

Weyward is an alternate Earth
First off, planets' names are used for the elements, except Earth, which would logically be the formal name for the element of earth. Why? Because while the Sun, Mercury, Venus, the moon, Mars and Jupiter (and supposedly the rest of our solar system) are present, Earth is not. Instead, that "Earth" is Weyward. Second, look at the continents. Angara and Gondowan look much like North and South America, and Gondowan used to be the name for the South American and African continents before they split long ago. Also, seeing as it's an alternate earth, a few things are different, like the presence of totally real alchemy, and Weyward actually is flat.
  • So probable it's on the main page under Fantasy Counterpart Culture.
  • Don't forget Craggy Peak's Western Zodiac puzzles.
  • Cultures found (or referenced in items, artwork, etc.) throughout the series: Anglo/Saxon, Native American, African, Middle Eastern, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Greek, Norse, Carribean...I'd say this WMG is highly probable.
  • Not only that, but the alternate reality it takes place spawned from pre-Enlightenment ideas of the solar system. You know, the theory of how alternate universes spring up when we imagine them?
  • In Dark Dawn, it's even more obvious after the lands have shifted due to the Golden Sun. The Endless Wall is clearly the Great Wall of China, and the cutlures are in the same places they are on our Earth. Angara is Asia (west of Mt. Aleph is Europe) and Godowan is Africa. considering you onle get to travel around Angara in Dark Dawn, the next game will have more of the world unlocked.
  • the golden sun map that the people of Lemuria used looked like wht Pangea used to be, while the goldensun 1 and 2 looked like Gondwana and Lauracia. And the new map look, umm, looks, eto that they used their imagination to create a map?

The Djinn are making the cool summon sequences for the fun of it.
  • If they didn't, then all you'd see when you did a 3 or 4 Djinn summon would be the same as 3 or 4 individual summons.
    • The Djinn are bored 4chan drawfags. I like it.
    • It does explain the wonky mythology, they're more interested in cool effects than factual accuracy.

Felix will star in his own game.

Tolbi, in the reverse of Rome's change from a Republic to an Empire, is now a republic
Also, the Colloseo Gladiators cameo as Senators.

Iodem killed Babi
Upon learning the truth of Babi's actions (It's all for his sake, not Tolbi's, shattering any illusion there is a reason for Babi's actions) when he explains the situation to the GS 1 party. As a result Iodem uses his proximity to Babi to kill him in any number of ways (Keep his medicine from him, poison his food or, for the classics, stab him).

The portion of Golden Sun Isaac received from the Mars Star at the beginning of GS is different from the Golden Sun power the party was bathed in atop the Mars Lighthouse at the end of TLA.
As such, Isaac has two different pieces of Golden Sun housed in his body.
  • That... what? You mean he has that piece of the Mars Star/ Golden Sun in him in addition to aging slowly? Because I thought that wasbasically stated outright.

Isaac's rough, impetuous attitude in TLA is a result of not being able to talk for the past game
Face it, if you had to spend two months giving nothing but Yes/No answers and having everybody else put words in your mouth or answer for you, you'd be pissed, too.

The Gaia and Sol Blades are part of a set...
if their Dark Dawn design is any indication. One can expect equally-broken versions in other elements to show up in future games.

Karst and Agatio's disappearance prior to the penultimate battle at the Mars Lighthouse was...
... part of an extended plan by the Wise One, who was holding them hostage and intended to use them as collateral in the event that the party wouldn't fight the Doom Dragon. When the party fought and won anyways, the Wise One decided he wouldn't need his backup plan anymore, and did...something.

Karst and Agatio were revived by the Mars Lighthouse...
... just like the parents were.
  • Probably not. They were deemed unworthy by the Wise One, hence why they were turned into dragons and not allowed to light the beacon. Bringing the parents back was his reward to the heroes for being pure and firm in their resolve.

Babi isn't dead
Never Found the Body. Or at least, no one went to Tolbi after hearing that Babi died.

Obaba was a Fiery Redhead in her younger days.
She's confirmed in Dark Dawn to be a natural Fire Adept. Since Fire Adepts outside the Fire Clan are inevitably redheaded, it seems like a reasonable conclusion. Plus, her baby great-grandson had to get it somewhere.

Dullahan is an Anemos that stayed behind to guard the Sanctum.
Hey, his Signature Move is a frigging lightning sword.

A Philosopher's Stone like the Wise One will be fought in a future game
It's possible that at least one other survived, and that one might not be as friendly.

Clan Associations
According to the Mars Lighthouse, each element has an associated being. It's possible that adepts, or descendants of the adept Clans, may show characteristics of these beings. Note that this speculation is more than a little tongue-in-cheek.
  • Mars, dragons: Proxans, descendants of the Fire Clan, have scales and can turn into dragons (canon)
  • Venus, mankind: All the major Venus Adepts in the series have leadership qualities (our party leaders in the games and the royal family of Izumo/Yamata)
  • Mercury, fish: Either adepts from Imil or Lemurians can breathe underwater
  • Jupiter, birds: People from Anemos can fly (Sheba fell from the moon and survived)

Saturos and Menardi had Djinn we didn't know about.
That's how they could cast Potent Cure, Break, Ward and Wish. Hey. It works for the playable Adepts!

Isaac's attitude in TLA was simply a result of always being late getting to him.
Isaac is implied throughout the first game to be a pretty chill guy, so why the attitude shift in the second game? Simple. He's just pissed. Let's face it, he's travelled around the world looking for his childhood friend and mentor, a way to extend an old man's already long lifespan, is trying to save the world... This shit just keeps piling up and what makes it worse is that it he always, always, always fails. All of Isaac's victories in the first game are either short-term only (ie: saving Babi in the caves but not being able to find his draught) or about things unrelated to his quest (sure, he won Colosso but did that actually accomplish anything? I think not). The important stuff, though? All failures. Get to Mercury Lighthouse? Whoops! You're too late! Get to Venus? Think you have a chance to fix things? Ha Ha Ha No. Gonna rescue Sheba? Pfft. Not happening, bro. Try to save Babi? He dies. Get to Jupiter Lighthouse? Karst and Agatio make your life a pain in the arse.

Let's face it, no matter what kind of leader you are, if you failed to accomplish every gorram thing you put your mind to, you're gonna be pissed. off.

The Wise one is an asshole and was behind the enemy parties. At all points whatsoever.
He was also throwing rocks.

Golden Sun takes place in the same universe as Star Control.
It makes sense.

Golden Sun is an alternate Earth ravaged by a war of the mostly greco-roman gods that released a lot of magic and messed with the continents, as well as jamming the existing landmasses over a gigantic plateau.
The gods got pissed for whatever reason and shot each other with super-awesome divine superweapons and this kind of broke things. The wonky mythology is a result of neighboring pantheons edging in and survivors having to deal with the fallout from so much weirdness. Some of the likely results and tidbits are as follows (feel free to add):
  • Gaia got absolutely wrecked (resulting in the aforementioned geological weirdness) and had to be put on the divine equivalent of life support via alchemy. When said alchemy got sealed away, things got absolutely horrific as she started fading, such as the whole Gaia Falls problem and later the psynergy vortexes in Dark Dawn as she requires more energy after the massive defect followed by a resurgence which alerted her to the presence of that required energy.
  • Atalanta and a few other figures became low-ranking and summonable gods to deal with problems as they cropped up.
  • The fates and furies and minor/other-pantheon deities like Iris and Cybele and other ancillary or auxiliary deity or deity-like entities became much more prominent as they replaced dead/incapacitated deific functions.
  • The aforementioned massive magic release and life support alchemy put so much magic into the world that jenei and Adepts in general began to crop up from being filled with it.
  • Monster races spawned as the various monsters created by or before the war kept growing out of control.

Piers is named for Piers Anthony.
In his Apprentice Adept series, one of the two worlds is basically ruled by powerful mages called Adepts, much like this world presumably was in The Time of Myths when Piers was growing up.


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