Headscratchers: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
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- In the Wind Waker, it's implied/speculated that the Rito evolved from the Zora of Ocarina of Time. This bugs me on several levels. Firstly, to go from fish to bird would require a lizard-stage evolution first. Where are these dodongo-zoras, and why would they evolve into lizards? What evolutionary advantage does being a reptile give? Secondly, the world was just flooded! Why would FISH-PEOPLE evolve into BIRDS?! That seems like a disadvantage considering the world is just a giant ocean now!
- You're falling into a classic TV-evolution trap. There is no reason whatever that becoming a bird-man from being a fish-man would require an intermediate lizard-man stage. It's also important to notice that an amphibious race like the Zora would indeed be massively inconvenienced by the kind of change that would result from Hyrule flooding. You just ask a saltwater fish how it likes melting icecaps.
- But Zora seem to live in freshwater. There's only one kind of water in Hyrule as of Oo T (starts at Zora spring, becomes Zora River, ends at Lake Hylia), and I don't think Hylians can drink saltwater, so the Zora River must be freshwater. Assuming the gods flooded Hyrule with pure H2O, the Zora would have no trouble at all living in the Great Sea.
- It's an analogy. Of course vice versa would be equally troublesome.
- Actually, in Majora's Mask, Zora lived in the sea.
- Those are completely different Zoras.
- Then shouldn't they have adapted to the new water environment, rather than taking to what little land there was (as they had, before they received wings)?
- Magic, perhaps. Back in the Old Days, the Zora and the Hyrulians were tight. It's possible that they chose to stay with the Hylians, teaching them how to survive on the sea, rather than simply abandon them to their fate. Maybe Lord Jabun or one of the Goddesses transformed them, so it wasn't a slow series of patches so much as an upgrade.
- Possibly, the Rito were always there, just high in the mountains where Link never went- the Zora never left thier homes and stayed in the sea in Hyrule. This is probably an Epileptic Tree.
- Or maybe the Rito aren't the Zora. Think about it, the Zora worshipped Jabu-Jabu. Jabun was on Great Fish Island. In the ruins of the island, you can see fishing boats and the remnants of a village that looks a lot like the Zoras' seaside area in Majora's Mask. Maybe the Zora just hid in Wind Waker when Ganondorf destroyed their home.
- Eiji Aonuma confirmed the Zora-Rito connection in something called "Zelda Box" that Japan got around The Wind Waker's release.
- Although the previous Sage of the Earth Temple, Laruto, was a Zora. The game implies/outright states that Medli is Laruto's descendant. In addition to some of the evolutionary questions raised above, though it's hard to say why fish-turned-bird people would take over the Gorons' traditional fiery volcano home. Fire + feathers = good idea?!
- Phantom Hourglass also categorically confirms that the Rito are descended from the Zora. You can collect "Zora Scales" which the game describes as having belonged to the ancestors of the Rito. Doesn't get clearer than that.
- Exactly when was that said? There's no such text in Phantom Hourglass at all.
- I vaguely recall that being stated somewhere, but can't remember where exactly. Follow this link for the Treasure descriptions. The one for the Zora Scale says "It is said that a Zora dropped this rare and sparkling scale!"
- The amphibian stage for the Zoras is that weird freaky green design they had in Link to the Past. They looked a bit like frogs.
- Actually, the 2D Zora design is more fish-like than the 3D design, which if anything looks dolphin-like.
- It's probably not evolution so much as they were transformed by their Sky God (much like the Kokiris were changed into the free-floating Koroks after the flood), which also explains why they have to go back to Valoo for wings — they're not natural, so they don't pass on.
- Exactly. Zora may (or may not) be able to live in salt water (the games don't agree on this, with some having ocean-only Zora and some having freshwater-only.) but for whatever reason the Zora couldn't live in the great sea (Heck, this could've been mandated by the goddesses as a way to keep Hyrule a secret/sealed.) They didn't evolve, though, such an evolution would take hundreds of millions of years, not a hundred. Instead, it's pretty clear that they were changed by Valoo into the Rito.
- This seems the most likely answer. If Hyrule was intended to be permanently sealed and hidden away beneath a great ocean, then leaving around an aquatic race would be risky. The goddesses obviously meant businesse when they decided the country's time had come to an end.
- Wasn't there a tree that the gods forced the change so they wouldn't discover the old Hyrule?
- Um, yeah. The Great Sea is described as a fishless sea. Considering what you hit if you go too far down, it makes sense that fish of all kinds (including the Zora) would scramble to find somewhere more hospitable.
- Except that, contrary to the salvage guys and Ganon. it clearly isn't a fishless sea. You encounter Gyorgs and Fishmen all over the place, while Orca has all those shark jaws diplayed in his house. Unless the developers are trying to say that sharks aren't fish, the "fishless sea" idea simply isn't true. Plus, those sharks have to eat something other than Link...
- Perhaps by "fish" they referred to the kind that you could put in a bottle in other games.
- Possibly it means that there are fish in the Great Sea, but so few that trying to make a living off of fishing is totally pointless. The Gyorg are probably eating those, and in hard times, each other. It might make sense that the Zora would leave the water if there's really not enough fish to sustain them, unless they want to tangle with a shark every time they want to eat.
- Evolutionary answer: Zora are already amphibious. Ocarina Zoras leave the water and walk on land all the time. Zora's Domain has more land than it does water, and their king has a dry throne. They aren't fish, they're amphibians. Now, assuming that the world around Hyrule has oceans, that is where the water for flooding Hyrule would have come from. To flood Hyrule permanently as has happened in Wind Waker, the oceans would have to rise until they covered all of Hyrule, and remain there. Zoras being predominantly freshwater creatures, the sudden onset of saltwater would destroy their lungs and kill them. Zoras being amphibious, those that survived the flood would have done so by clinging to what vestiges of land remain above the ocean after it's risen. At this point, we're left with an amphibious race that can't actually survive in the water anymore, and that isn't naturally equipped to exist solely on land. Whether evolution or Valoo happened next, their only chance for survival at that point is to adapt.
Tetra's skin color
- How is it, that Tetra's skin-colour changes with clothes she's wearing? Because that's the only real change! I got about Zelda's hair-length and tried it out: You NEED that much hair to actually make Tetra's hairstyle, so her hairlength doesn't change! It's just the skin! It's like she was using "Anti-tan" and "Insta-tan".
- Or, y'know, makeup. To cover the actual tan when she wants to look princess-like.
- Or...the Triforce. Perhaps Tetra's parents wished to hide her lineage?
- Why do people obsess over Tetra's tan disappearing when she becomes Zelda, but say nothing about when the same thing happens in Ocarina of Time. Sheik's skin becomes significantly lighter when she reverts to Zelda. It's not just "being revealed" it's an actual transformation.
- Because Shiek is somebody who is in disguise; we saw what OOT's Zelda looked like as a child, and Shiek is pretty different in many ways, which makes sense because changing things like eye color, skin color, physical build, and so on if possible are a big help when hiding. But Tetra is just assumed to be what she normally looks like, just a girl who is raised as a pirate instead of a princess, and thus having tanned skin and tomboyish clothes rather than pale, powdered skin and a dress. So they give her a dress, okay, we can live with that... but where does the skin come in?
- Maybe Tetra was just really dirty and the Triforce cleaned her up? Her hair also looked a bit shinier and cleaner.
- Living a life at sea sure builds up a tan, let's just assume magic just undid all of that.
- It's possible that this is a cultural concept that was Lost in Translation. Historical projections of regal, feminine beauty in East Asian history are tied to the ideal of pale, whitened skin. Nobility idled their time away through personal pursuits rather than hard labor, so their untanned skin was symbolic of their class. Her change in coloration may be representative of this shift.
- Skyward Sword proposes a possible answer to this. The revelation that Princess Zelda is the reincarnation of the Goddess Hylia explains the mystery of why all the Zeldas look extremely similar, in contrast to the varying appearances of the Links. It's possible that the reason Tetra's skin tone changes when she becomes Zelda is because her body is being transformed in order to, as all Zeldas before her, resemble the Goddess. Tetra is Zelda as she was actually born and lives, while "Princess Zelda" is Zelda as the mortal form of the Goddess, and her appearance changes accordingly. This isn't an issue encountered with other Princess Zeldas in the series, because every other Zelda has been born into royalty and tradition, and raised to be Princess Zelda, while Tetra was not.
- The similarity is not that 'extreme' at all. Compare Zeldas from SS, Oo T and TP, - differences galore! The latter even has a completely different hair color.
- Maybe it's just "this is what you would've looked like if you lived your entire life as a princess instead of a pirate."
Flooding and sea level
- After the magical time-suspension forcefields holding the ocean away from old Hyrule were deactivated, flooding it, why didn't the sea level at the surface drop at all?
- The ocean is supposedly covering most of the world. If such a small percentage of water is suddenly missing, you just wouldn't notice.
- The Great Sea's islands are basically the mountaintops of Hyrule. Because they're supported by the sea, only the actual Hylian land is completely submerged.
- Maybe it wasn't just raining in Hyrule during the final battle. Perhaps the Golden Goddesses made it rain on the surface of the Great Sea, as well, to compensate for the displacement.
Flooding the planet
- Hyrule seems like a relatively small kingdom. So why, when Ganondorf escapes in TWW, do the goddesses flood the planet? Not just Hyrule, the entire planet bar a few mountaintops? (On that note, New Hyrule is a huge mountaintop with it's own damn geography.) I mean, really, just raise the land around the place and flood the basin formed. No need to flood the whole world.
- Well, since it's a Hylian legend, perhaps they simply had no concept of the literal size of the world.
- But Labrynna and Holodrum, Hyrule's neighboring kingdoms, were probably flooded as well, and they were known and accessible by, at least, Hyrule's royalty. Who would think Hyrule was the whole world? Definitely not the goddesses, as the Triforce was able to teleport Link over. So why flood the world? Then again, Labrynna and Holodrum may or may not be neighbors of New Hyrule rather than Flooded Hyrule. But there is still no way Flooded Hyrule can not have trading partners and hence, knowledge of there being more to the world than just Hyrule.
- Yeh...I always figured Labrynna and Holodrum were neighboring New Hyrule. (Though the "different timelines" theory at least intrigues me.) Well, that's the timeline for ya.
- What stops Ganon from conquering Labrynna and Holodrum as well, especially in a world without a hero? His minions almost did exactly that in the 'Oracle' games, and Ganondorf wasn't even around to lead them!
- Well maybe the 'the world' just isnt all that big, maybe Hyrule IS 'the world' (aside from a few other lands). Or maybe the Goddesses are just huge jerkasses...
- The world's got to be that big, look at the Great Sea. Even if the whole overworld map in TWW was the size of Hyrule (Hyrule probably wasn't that big), there's still what we see in PH and wherever New Hyrule is. Plus, in TWW, at the edge of the map you can still see that the Great Sea goes on for much, much longer, but the King of Red Lions stops you from going further because those waters are much more dangerous, meaning it's definitely not just the other side of the map. The Goddesses are either jerkasses or there is some other reason to kill countless innocent beings (including all the fish in the sea.)
- Actually, it was stated that PH takes place in "The World of the Ocean King"- possibly an alternate world- so its Great Sea may or may not not actually take up any space in Hyrule or its surroundings.
- Perhaps by the time the Goddesses got around to drowning the place, Ganondorf's power and corruption had spread that far. Zelda did say in Ocarina of Time that he'd take over the entire world if he could.
- It could be that they were simply unable to isolate the flooding to just Hyrule alone, given how massive it would had to have been to have any lasting effect against Ganon. The Goddesses were faced with a Sadistic Choice, and even they, with all their power, were unable to find a way around it...flood the entire world to stop Ganondorf from conquering Hyrule and sending it into an age of darkness that makes the Bad Future from Ocarina of Time look like an episode of Hamtaro, or let Ganondorf run free and unopposed, dooming Hyrule and everyone who lived there...and eventually the rest of the world, once he realized there were lands other than Hyrule. With the first choice, there was at least a small hope of salvation, so they reluctantly went with it.
- We're also approaching the issue from a human perspective - time is endless from a god's. To the goddesses, having to destroy Hyrule may have been a unfortunate and necessary choice, but it's also one that will eventually be a miniscule part of the long history of the world. With centuries and millenia to come, it will move on and rebuild anew. Consider the Deku Tree statements about the forests that may come after his Koroks plant the seeds of new Deku trees - his thinking far outstrips any human conception of time.
- Maybe the flood didn't actually involve the water level of the world rising, but the altitude of Hyrule falling. That is, maybe Hyrule was, more accurately, sunk to the bottom of the sea. This would explain why certain locations (such as the Forest Haven and Windfall/Kakariko) seem to have been kept above the water (they weren't sunk with the rest of the land). It also would imply that Hyrule is a peninsula, island or continent of its own. As noted, it's possible that locations like Labrynna are actually neighbouring New Hyrule, or alternatively that they were formed at other times due to other changes in geography. Oh, and it may also provide a mechanism - a major tectonic shift causes most of Hyrule to collapse.
- All in all, it's not really possible to answer this question without knowing the full extent of Ganon's conquests (which forced the Goddesses to proceed with the flood plan).
- Fodo. Where did he come from? Kokiri can't breed (and are too innocent to if they could) apparently, so he isn't a descendant.
- It's 'Fado'. Presumably, he also came from the Great Deku Tree, but didn't become a Korok because he was too busy being a sage.
- His Japanese name is "Fodo". I use it to differentiate between him and the OOT character.
- Why? You Potholed to The Wind Waker anyway, and it makes it confusing for people not familiar with the Japanese version.
- They're two different characters.
- And your point is...?
- Or Are They? Alternately, perhaps there's a global Deku tree network (as indicated by the seedling sidequest in TWW) among which the Kokiri/Korok forest spirits circulate.
- They are not blood related. I would assume that once a sage dies, the power of the sage moves on to someone else who is connected with their element. The sage power lays dormant until the person dies or it is awakened. It would explain why in each game the sages are completely different in race.
- On the other hand, perhaps they do breed...but they only do it for the sake of preserving their race, and are otherwise oblivious to the perverted nature of such. A little creepy? Perhaps. But then again, chances are fairly high that most of them are Really 700 Years Old.
- If the Deku Sprout and this game's Deku Tree are the same character, it's probably logical to assume that he created both Fado and Makar, making them something like very distant brothers. That is a blood relation and the sagehood could probably be passed through that. Although it's also implied that the sages were killed long before Wind Waker began, maybe even before the kingdom was flooded. If that's the case, it's possible that the last Deku Tree created Fado, but this would probably still make them close enough to be considered blood relatives of some kind. In any case, Fado calling Makar his descendant might have been just a weird choice of words on his part, if he's really that much older than Makar, he might have just figured that "descendant" and "several hundred years younger brother" are pretty much the same thing.
- Maybe the Kokiri and Koroks both reproduce asexually, like trees that self-pollinate and drop seeds. Or, I always assumed that there were a few stages of reincarnation between the Kokiri and the Koroks, and Makar is Fado's distant reincarnation.
- Please, someone, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I don't recall Makar ever being referred to word for word as Fado's blood descendant...Am I right about that? Fado only mentions that his successor has the "blood of the sages" running through his veins, which could just refer to that person's ability to act as a sage, not their lineage to a previous one, and Makar desires to take up his duty as a way of easing his "ancestors'" regrets, which could just refer to Fado and him being related in the bigger picture, as in, one's a Kokiri and the other is a Korok, thus, both are technically related in some way. In a similar way to how his predecessor could foresee the Hero of Time's future when he was presented him as an infant, the Great Deku Tree of this game could possibly have done the same with Makar, foreseeing his destiny as a sage and thus giving him the same violin the previous sage had used when Makar was born.
Poe and Jalhalla
- This might be nitpicky, but how is it that when you're fighting Jalhalla a single Poe can reform into the main body?
- It must be that mask. The mask causes the growth and all that; the extra Poes are just there for backup.
- You also notice that when all the Poes are destroyed, the mask is still alive.
- So did Medli just get a raw deal with her scale or something? She has wings, so she's completed that ritual. But they're hidden most of the time and only work for gliding short distances or with strong winds, unlike other Rito who can just straight up fly, even long distances.
- Presumably they're still growing in, and she simply needs training and time to grow before she can fly properly. Nobody ever said it was an entirely instant deal, just that the scale triggered the process.
- Prince Komali. He can fly rather decent distances and helps save the protagonists at one point of the game, carrying a person from Ganondorf's lair to the Tower of Gods. So I think the original poster still has a point, he got his wings well after Medli.
- But he is royalty, so maybe royal Rito have accelerated... wing... growth... capabiltiies.
- Medli hasn't used her wings much. Komali flies around all day. So it's safe to assume she doesn't have much developed wing strength.
- The only times we see Medli flying are A.) In the middle of the dried-up spring with bizarrely-changing atmospheric currents, and B.) Inside a tomb-like temple with stagnant air that probably wouldn't be a very helpful aid in flight. Plus, we've never actually seen other female Rito besides Medli, so it's possible her wings not being as pronounced as others of her tribe is just a difference between genders.
Bird and Earth, Plant and Air
- Can someone please explain to me why the BIRD-girl is the sage of the EARTH temple and the little root PLANT thing is the sage of the AIR temple? Shouldn't it be the other way around?
- I was just thinking about that this morning while replaying the Earth Temple, which, aside from the obvious thematic discrepancy, clearly displays the telltale markings shown in every single Forest Temple to date. You can't miss them; parts of the dungeon require shining light on them to reveal things. Forest Temple = Kokiri Forest = Forest Haven = Kokiri = Koroks = Makar. Medli = Rito = Zora = ...well, not Forest or Earth anything.
- You could probably justify Makar's being the sage of the Wind Temple because his race is known to float on the wind with their leaves, and the Forest Haven is where Link receives the Deku Leaf, allowing him to fly on the wind as well. As for Medli, that one's a bit more of a stretch. It might be related to the fact that Dragoon Roost Island, the dungeon/area she's most featured in is home to a volcano, possibly the former Death Mountain, which could be sort of earth related.
- Or the game designers did that on purpose, as to make it less obvious who the sages were.
- Perhaps it's meant to follow this train of logic...The evolution of Zoras into the Rito involves adapting to more earthly environments as much as it does aerial ones - fish and other sea creatures spend most, if not all of their time, beneath the surface of the water, whereas birds require periodic stops on land to rest, mate, build nests, etc. The Rito apparently had to use Grappling Hooks to move around before they gained the ability to fly, and by what we've been told, they don't seem able to grow their wings without a scale from the sky spirit. Hence, despite them being an avian race, the earth still does play a much more important role in their daily lives than it did for their predecessors, the Zoras. As for the Koroks and the Wind Temple...though they still rely heavily upon the earth itself, being a species based largely on plant life...the elements of the air are still important to them. Just as the wind is responsible for scattering new seeds across the world, the Koroks also seem to rely on it as their means of transportation following the Great Flood. Although earth and wind aren't the most pertinent elements to the Rito and Koroks...it can still be said that they've come to rely on them much more than their origin species ever had.
- Seriously, how old is Tetra meant to be? I have no idea.
- I'd say around 12.
- I recall that glasses pirate saying something along the lines of, "looking at Tetra you wouldn't believe she's about 30 years old." I believe it was towards the beginning of the game.
- That same pirate (Who's not the glasses one, but the one blocking her room) then says he's just kidding. She's probably 12, like the above person said.
Number of Islands
- If the world of Wind Waker is a flooded Ocarina of Time, how are there 49 islands? Especially towards the center where Hyrule Field used to be, and if the ocean isn't really as deep as the underwater Hyrule castle suggest then how in the world did the tower of the gods manage to stay underwater?
- Maybe lots and lots of sediment moved by currents built up into underwater mountains that poke above the sea level due to tidal deposits? Really quickly?
- The same reason the mountain ranges around Hyrule change quickly and often- Gorons. Since they eat rocks, mountains only have a limited lifespan. Since they're made of rocks, when a Goron dies it creates new landmass (A Medigoron would be more than enough to create a decent-sized island). Since the Gorons probably grew large on rocks after Ganon's defeat, and there are very few of them left during Wind Waker, it can be assumed that quite a few Gorons drowned during or after the flood. These Goron bodies would attract sediment and dirt, which would eventually attract plant life and other rocks and the like.
- You may also be able to assume that when the gods flooded the kingdom, they made mountains for the civilians to try and escape to. If we're to assume the Deku Tree in this game is the Deku Sprout from OOT, the land it was planted in had to have been raised into a mountain, unless he was replanted or something.
- Perhaps some of them are leftover from the floating islands in Skyward Sword, and were lowered down to sea level by the Golden Goddesses after the Great Flood was over. Let's also not forget that the Koroks have been going out every year and planting saplings with the power to pull up new land from beneath the water. It's possible that many of the islands seen in-game were much smaller, too much so for life to be sustained upon them, so the Great Deku Tree sent out his children to do their work and make the Great Sea more habitable by making the islands bigger.
- How on Hyrule's flooded planet does a conductor's baton signify different notes? I understand the necessity of having magical music, and the idea of having Link "conduct" the wind is kind of neat and artistic, but conducting does not work that way at all, people.
- The hero is probably pointing out what the wind will do. Like pointing up means "You'll go first group A", then he points to the left to say "then you'll go, Group B". Once they're all organized, the hero conducts them properly. Plus, dude, he does proper conducting during the prayers.
- That explanation doesn't make any sense, and no, he actually does not. Conducting is about tempo, not about the tones of the notes. You can't conduct to the left and have that signify a C# and a right signify a Bb.
- Maybe he's conducting for the gods or something. Remember when you play a song, Link conducts a second time after you input the notes, and music plays in the background. The music could very well be the gods controlling the wind, or whatever it is the song is for.
- Maybe 'conducting' in the Zelda-verse means something different from what it means in our world. All it literally means is 'to direct in an action or course', 'to direct (as a leader)', or 'to serve as a channel or medium for a force'. Link does all three of these with the Baton: he directs the winds into new courses, he acts as the leader/director for the winds by commanding them what to do, and he acts as a medium for the forces of the gods of the wind by using the baton.
Medli's skin color
- Related to the gripe about Tetra's skin color above, I'm confused about Medli's skin color. The rest of the Rito have dark/tan skin, yet she's pale as the moon. Is there any good reason for how pale she is in a race of dark-skinned bird-people, other than to signify that she's significant and important?
- IIRC, Medli is the only female Rito ever shown. Perhaps Rito girls just have a lighter skin tone than the males? By this point, they are based on birds, which tend to have different color schemes in their feathers between the males and females.
Master Sword sealing wielder
- So is there any particular reason the Master Sword didn't seal Link when he pulled it out like it did to Ocarina of Time's Link?
- IIRC, Rauru, the sage of light, was the one who kept link in stasis in the sacred realm for seven years. He wasn't present to do that in Wind Waker. Even if he was, he probably saw that this era's Link was old enough to wield it and defeat Ganon without having to age him first.
- If I had to guess, it's probably because it was weakened at the time he pulled it out. In the process of re-powering it, he proved that he was capable of handling it despite his youth. The fact that this incarnation of Link was The Unchosen One and had to literally fight for the right to wield both the Master Sword and the Triforce of Courage (as opposed to simply receiving them Because Destiny Says So) may have had something to do with it as well.
- Desperate times call for desperate measures. The Master Sword probably realized it wasn't getting anybody better anytime soon.
- But Fi's asleep...
- Maybe she's a lucid dreamer.
- Given what happened the last time they vacuum sealed the hero for safekeeping, the sages (or whoever is responsible for that bit) probably made some tweaks to the system. Either that, or TWW Link is an incredibly small and young-looking sixteen-year-old.
- The boys of Outset Island are given copies of the Hero of Time's clothes when they reach the age he was when fighting Ganon, so we can assume that either this Link is Older Than He Looks, or the Hero of Time was Younger Than He Looks - either way, both Links are around the same age and are mature enough to wield the Master Sword.
- OOT Link is generally thought to be around 16 or 17 years old post-timeskip at which point he is referred to as Ďadultí Link, Twilight Princess Link is also placed at 16 or 17 and has an actual job and owns property so we can infer that Hyruleans probably come of age at 16 or 17 years old. WW Linkís actual age is never mentioned in-game but at least three other sources, also published by Nintendo, claim that heís 12 which obviously does not constitute an adult by Hyrulean standards. WW Link, however, is from a culture where boys come of age at 12 so even though heís young the fact that heís come of age could technically make him old enough to wield the Master Sword.
- Link was sealed in sleep in Ocarina of Time because he hadn't yet proved himself worthy to be the Hero of Time before he tried to remove the sword, since gathering the Spiritual Stones were meant to be the keys to the Triforce, not the sword itself. In The Wind Waker, on the other hand, the Pearls and the Tower of the Gods were designed specifically to test the worth of any new hero that may have appeared, in order to determine whether he was worthy of pulling the Master Sword from its pedestal. Hence, Link didn't need to be put to sleep or anything - he'd already been deemed worthy by the gods to take it.
- How long after Ocarina of Time is this supposed to take place? It seems like it has to have been quite a ways after, given how the Zoras and Kokiris have turned into the the Ritos and Koroks, and the intro states that "none remain" who remember what happened to Hyrule. If it was only 100 years like I've seen a lot of people guessing, it would be fairly likely that the characters we see in-game are at most great-grandchildren of the characters we see in Ocarina, so it seems weird that they'd have little accurate info on what had happened — I mean, Triumph Forks, really? But on the other hand, it can't have been too much longer afterwards either; Ganondorf seems to have gotten quite a bit of Character Development and become Older and Wiser, so I doubt it would seriously take him that long to come up with his plans in this game. Plus, since Tetra is Zelda and has the Triforce of Wisdom, that makes it seem fairly likely that Ocarina's Zelda couldn't have left too many descendants, as too many generations later would make Tetra having the Triforce of Wisdom a complete Contrived Coincidence.
- Didn't I read somewhere that WW was set a hundred years after Oo T?
- I've always said that it sort of depends on how old Ganondorf is during the events of Ocarina. Considering that Gerudo seem to be able to live for hundreds of years (Kotone and Kotake are 380 or 400, after all) meaning it could be set something like 300 years later.
- Twilight Princess was the game actually stated to take place roughly a hundred years after Ocarina of Time. The Wind Waker gives the impression it's been longer than a century - everything from the language to written history has been completely lost by the time the story starts. Ganondorf escaped by way of a breach in the seal over Hyrule, and considering that it was the goddesses themselves who originally entrapped him, it likely took awhile to weaken. Ganondorf is a Big Bad with plenty of time, after all - the Triforce of Power makes him effectively immortal by Word of God.
- Hyrule Historia (or at least this translation of it) suggests that TWW takes place hundreds of years after OOT, so there you go.
- The King of Hyrule himself mentions that "hundreds of years" have passed since Hyrule was flooded alone.
Lenzo and pictures
- I'm aware that Orca and Sturgeon probably had what it took to defeat a Darknut, but how in the Hell did Lenzo get his hands on pictures of Laruto and Fado and the Great Fairy and the Fairy Queen and Jabun and the King of Hyrule and Ganondorf?
- Gameplay and Story Segregation. Aside from that, maybe Lenzo had a ridiculously high adventurous life when he was young.
- I don't know if he was the one who took those pictures. But, Lenzo was adventurous enough to get a picture of the Fairy Queen, who you not only needed to launch yourself in the sky with a tornado to see, but she didn't even appear to Link at first. And the King of Hyrule? Only three people have seen him. Three. Maybe it was an old pictograph that came before the gods decided to scrub all the floors in Hyrule.
- Maybe in Ganondorf's case, Lenzo or some poor schmuck made it to the Forsaken Fortress and got a picture of Ganondorf before he was tossed out.
- I'm pretty sure that somewhere Lenzo or someone around him mentions that there are times when a picture can be taken and an apparition appears. I thought that line was referring to these photos. He didn't take the pictures of the subject but rather the subjects appeared in the photos unexpectedly.
- Lenzo mentions having an uncanny knack for sneaking up behind people when they don't expect him to..Thus, it isn't too implausible to say that he managed to sneak his way through the Forsaken Fortress and snap a picture of the King of Evil when Ganondorf wasn't looking...However, I'd wager it is a bit of a stretch to suggest he dove to the bottom of the Great Sea, opened the way into the basement of Hyrule Castle, took a picture of the King of Hyrule's ghost, and lived to tell the tale, so I think it's more likely some of the more hard-to-get photos were handed down to Lenzo or purchased from someone else who took them earlier. They are sepia-toned in the original game, after all.
- I've come back here after playing through the game once more - Lenzo actually only mentions the anniversary of the day he "received" his first Legendary Pictograph, implying he got them from someone else presumably at a time when they would've been less difficult to obtain.
- Who writes the descriptions for the figurines in the Nintendo Gallery? The most logical answer would be Carlov, but it seems odd that he would include the rumor that he sculpts figurines in his underwear, and he would have no way of knowing about the rarer enemies or major plot developments such as Tetra being Princess Zelda.
- Given that the descriptions also mention the Octorock's perfect attendance record [no longer valid, as of Twilight Princess, I might add], I think it's fairly safe to say that the descriptions are purely out-of-universe, and in-universe the figures come with no more label than a name.
- The HD version indeed alters the Octorok's description, taking out the "perfect attendance".
- I think the entire concept of the Nintendo Gallery is meant to be looked at as being at least somewhat out-of-universe - the thing about Carlov spreading a rumor about himself sculpting in his underwear doesn't seem that strange when you consider he refers to pictographs of himself and Manny in such ways as 'mighty handsome', among others...not to mention, he has effigies of the Keaton Mask, All-Night Mask, Bunny Hood, and Goron Mask, as well as several bottles of Lon Lon Milk. It seems as though Carlov writes the discriptions, but since he's at least somewhat out-of-universe, it doesn't register in his mind that he's sculpting himself as he is still a component of the in-game continuity...Either that, or he just doesn't seem to care.
- It's a magical camera. Look, it's able to capture the light from parts of the pictographed person or creature that a normal camera would not, and convey that information to Carlov. And if you take a picture of Link's grandma, you get a figurine of her and one of Aryll. Or, for that matter, taking a picture of one pirate gets you the entire set of figurines. In-universe, this camera is storing a ton of metadata. (Which is probably why, as conjectured in the Let's Play of Beyond Good & Evil, the Picto Box can only store three pictures.)
- If you've agreed to go rescue Mila, talking to her father after making the agreement will sometimes lead to him asking if you want a reward for the rescuing. If you say yes he will reply that he needs to test you first and throw a red rupee into one of his china vases, then he'll tell you to go retrieve the rupee. This seems like a setup to a mini game or somesuch but nothing of the sort happens, meaning the only way to retrieve the rupee is to break the vases...which just makes him angry and causes you to be fined. Speaking to him again after he throws the rupee, regardless of whether you broke the vases or not, only prompts him to say how worried he is about Mila. There is absolutely NO point to this "test" thing AT ALL, so WHY was it even in the game in the first place?
- Trying to find some way to distract himself that doesn't involve Drowning His Sorrows?
- I remember reading once amidst the beta information for this game something that suggested Maggie and Mila were originally held in separate parts of the Forsaken Fortress from each other and Aryll, and that you were perhaps supposed to rescue the three of them separately. This may be why you can volunteer to save them both to their fathers, leading to the scenario in question, even though doing so in the final game ends up going nowhere since Tetra's pirates take all the credit.
Ganon and Daphnes at the end
- What prevented Ganondorf from getting King Daphnes out of the way when he appeared out of nowhere to ask the Goddesses to destroy Hyrule? He could have kicked him, slashed him, do anything to prevent the King from using the Triforce, but instead he just stands there.
- The king had already touched the Triforce, so perhaps he was worried interrupting him would bring about divine retribution or cause the King to alter his wish to "and make Ganon explode." Or perhaps he was in shock, as his reaction to the flooding shows he wasn't exactly thinking straight anymore.
- Not to mention...the King of Hyrule is a ghost, so...
- What does Tingle Tower do? What is the purpose of a large wooden tower with a top that rotates by two people pushing it?
- Tingle and logic just don't go well together.
- The idea behind it, Tingle's idea, I suppose, is that the tower is supposedly powered by 'wonderful fairy magic' and supposedly makes the world go round...I think he just keeps those two people there to spin it in order to maintain his werido delusions.
Tingle: Good-bye, Mr. Fairy! Please come to visit me at Tingle Tower again, where wonderful fairy magic makes the world spin and spin!
Fishman and Ice Arrows
- A minor query - amidst the information he offers for Star Island, the Fishman mentions an arrow that can freeze anything and that if you had it, you could even use it to freeze "that big monster" in the Forsaken Fortress, so you could pick it up and toss it...I was assuming he was referring to the Helmaroc King, but he's already been defeated by the time you're able to get the Ice Arrows. So was this comment pertaining to something that was Dummied Out of the final game...or maybe he was referring to a different monster?
- Maybe Fishman just isn't up on current events and doesn't know you've dealt with the Helmaroc King already.
- Maybe so, but it still seems odd for them to put that in, if it's something that has no purpose whatsoever...Pretty much every thing else the Fishmen say has at least some use it can be put toward, even if only for beginners.
- IIRC he actually said "those big monsters" referring to the Moblins, who you can freeze with the arrows then smash them with the hammer.
- No, he specifically says "that big monster in the Forsaken Fortress". What I'm thinking it may have meant (unless he was just off the mark, which I wouldn't exactly put past him) was that the Ice Arrows, and the Iron Boots, by extension, were originally meant to be obtained before the battle with the Helmaroc King - the bird uses a gust attack during the battle which you would've offset using the Iron Boots, and the Fishman mentions you could "give [the frozen monster] a whack", like with a hammer, after you've shot it with an Ice Arrow. Maybe this was a beta strategy for the battle, perhaps?
Pirates and Nayru's Pearl
- How were Tetra and the pirates planning on getting Nayru's Pearl even if they somehow managed to get into Jabun's cave with that huge ship of theirs? The Water Spirit was reluctant to even give it to Link himself, and that was when Link was accompanied by someone Jabun has presumably known for centuries. How would they have even gotten him to come to the surface of the water?
Vibrating Master Sword
- Why does the Master Sword start vibrating when Tetra notices it in the Forsaken Fortress? I've heard people say that it's because it could sense that she was really Princess Zelda, but that still wouldn't give it a reason to vibrate in her presence before Skyward Sword came out, and that was almost ten years after The Wind Waker. They ended up removing the detail from the HD version...Was that because they knew it didn't make sense, or because it was actually some sort of glitch that wasn't supposed to be there to begin with?
Ganon and Link's sister
- I know he's evil and all (or just misunderstood, as this game seems to imply)...but Ganondorf's only motive behind kidnapping young girls with long, pointed ears is so he can examine them to see if one of them is descended from Princess Zelda. So why doesn't he just let Link take his sister, if he knows she's not the one he's looking for?
- Ganon didn't know yet that Link came for his sister. At first glance he saw a kid dressed like the Hero of Time and thought this guy had come to kill him like the previous Link.
- He's clearly kept the girls longer than necessary, and Aryll has been inside his fortress for at least two days. So it's possible that he's just keeping them until he found Zelda, because if he let his prisoners go after examining them, they could've warned her about his plans - at least in his point of view, since nobody (not even Tetra herself) knew who Zelda was anyway and what the triforce marking meant.
Temples and Hyrule
- Shouldn't the Earth and Wind Temples have entrances/exits that would lead Link to Hyrule? The King of Red Lions refers to the barrier around Hyrule Castle as the reason why you can't reach them from below the sea, but I've explored both temples many times before yet have never come across even an indication of a second exit inside either of them, and the road beyond the barrier only leads from the castle directly to Ganon's Tower, as we find later. Additionally, wouldn't keeping those implied second exits run the risk of someone from the Great Sea discovering what's beneath it? As in, they go into the one of the temples, for whatever reason, come across said exit point (which I know isn't there in-game, but the story at least implies that it is), and travel through it to discover an expansive kingdom frozen in time.
- Since the Earth and Wind Temple could not be entered without a powerful magical artifacts that came from inside a volcano and freezing ice mountain, there's little worry about random bystanders exploring inside. Not to mention they'd be less equipped than Link and then would be killed by everything living in there.
Valoo, Quill, and Komali
- Just where were Valoo, Quill, and Komali going? The only places due south of there are the Private Oasis, Ice Ring Isle, and the Angular Isles. Certainly not home; that's north-by-northeast. The Great Deku Tree is south-by-southeast, and Jabun is either southwest or east-by-northeast. I cannot think of a single reason outside of possibly "It looks cool for them to be heading away from the tower in the direction of the opposite side of the ring from it" for them to be flying in that direction.
- I actually noticed the same problem when I was playing the game the other day. I think that the developers either forgot to take directional details into account, they didn't think the players would be paying attention or have the knowledge that the entrance to the tower faces to the south...or it was easier to animate them moving in such a straightforward direction. After all, from where Link and his boat were, all he would be able to see of them flying north from the tower...would be the tower, and they probably didn't think it would look that interesting.
- You could also view it just as them having to fly all the way around the world in order to reach Dragon Roost again.
- Maybe, but if you tried sailing the same way, you wouldn't find yourself in the northmost row; you're forced to turn around. Perhaps if there's a buffer zone that's too dangerous to sail through, but not too dangerous to fly over, and the Great Sea exists on a toroid world, or, at least in this case, a cylinder connecting the north and south rows with said buffer between, then that makes sense.
- I see what you mean...Speaking outside the context of this question - as the obvious answer is just an error or oversight - the Great Sea is said to cover the entirety of Hyrule, meaning that whatever lies beyond the borders of Link's sea chart is a part of the oceans that surrounded the kingdom before the flood. This indicates that the King of Red Lions would seemingly have no power in those realms even in his boat form, he has no idea what dangers may lie waiting in them for him and Link to come across, and he does know that there's nothing Link needs there and that the world above Hyrule is already large enough as it is.
Aryll and the new clothes
- So can Aryll see the Hero's New Clothes in the Second Quest? When you "show" them to her, she starts off by saying that you always wear the same old outfit and could use a new look, implying that what she sees Link wearing is just his blue pajamas. But immediately after that, she says that she guesses what he's wearing is pretty neat, anyway, which would seem to imply that it's something new to her. So...which one is it supposed to be?
Valoo and Volvagia
- Has anyone come up with an answer yet to the age-old question of how Valoo is friendly, not to mention got the honor of being named the sky spirit, when it's more than implied that he's descended from such a nasty fire-breathing blight as Volvagia?
- For the same reason Americans from southern states don't keep slaves, Germans don't kill Jews and Italians don't try to conquer the world: People (and dragons) are not their ancestors.
- There is a very large difference between the way human beings act and the way a dragon like Volvagia does, and so comparing the two is not entirely viable. The Nazis were a large group, composed of people who were more than just Nazis. There were people who supported them and people who opposed them. Volvagia is a singular dragon, who is monstrous and we can assume has little to no purpose nor desire beyond destroying things and killing and eating people. If he had offspring, that offspring would presumably not have the brainpower, nor the innate desire, to side with humanity and serve as a guardian spirit.
- Which hero did the Hero's Sword and Hero's Shield belong to originally? They both have the word 'Hero' in their name (the shield's description even states it was used by the legendary hero), and with how focused the villagers living on Outset are on traditions and the legends of the Hero of Time, you'd think this 'hero' would be the Hero of Time. But the Hero's Sword has very little in common with the Kokiri Sword, and the Hero's Shield is said to be a family heirloom of Link's, meaning it couldn't belong to the Hero of Time. They do both look similar to the Smith's Sword and Small Shield from The Minish Cap, which seemed to borrow a lot from The Wind Waker...Was this just meant to be a retcon where blurring of the lines of history caused the Outset Islanders to merge Link from The Minish Cap with the Hero of Time?
- They're the Hero's Sword and Hero's Shield in the same way Link's clothes are the Hero's Clothes.
Ganon and saplings
- Why does Ganondorf want to keep the forest saplings from growing? If what they can do is pull up more land from beneath the waves and unite the different islands of the Great Sea...isn't that exactly what Ganondorf wants?
- Ganondorf wanted the oceans to disappear so he can conquer Hyrule - the one that he's familiar with - so he can get what he wanted and probably say "screw you" to the goddesses that FLOODED the world in the first place. The exact reason why he wants the saplings destroyed is never really stated in-game, but I would assume that he's trying to prevent the Great Deku Tree's power from spreading, or to prevent a new Hyrule from being created altogether. Why make a new Hyrule if there already is one right beneath the waves?
- But Ganondorf has no idea if and when he'll be able to get his hands on the Triforce again at this point, and so it doesn't make much sense that he would try to kill the trees before they've even grown - I can understand a part of it is to keep the Great Deku Tree's influence from spreading, but couldn't he just let them draw up land and then wipe them out?
Great spirits and modern Hylians
- Of all the three spirits, how come the Great Deku Tree is the only one who knows how to speak modern Hylian? He's definitely the most permanently rooted in his place, and his only company seem to be the people-fearing Koroks. Wouldn't it have made more sense for Valoo or Jabun to speak it, since they were the guardians of modern Hylian-speaking peoples?
- About the time gap between Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker: At the end of Oo T Ganon was sealed by the Master Sword and the Sages. Somehow he escaped , terrorized Hyrule and then was sealed again when the Goddesses flooded the world. Then he escaped again, and finally Wind Waker's Link drew the Master Sword to defeat Ganon, thereby re-empowering him. But doesn't this mean, Ganon's power was still sealed by the Master Sword, when he was about to take over Hyrule? So the Hyruleans probably had the Sages, two parts of the Triforce, the entire population of Hyrule, and yet they couldn't defeat a weakened Ganon, because no Chosen One was available?
- To start, the Hylians didn't have two Triforce pieces. The Triforce of Courage had been split apart and scattered across the kingdom when the Hero of Time returned to his childhood at the end of Ocarina of Time, and Ganon of course had the Triforce of Power. But to answer your question, Ganondorf was only able to escape the seal the goddesses had placed on Hyrule by assuming his human form and leaving a presumably large amount of his powers still buried beneath the waves when he breached the surface. Since the key that was keeping Hyrule locked in its timefreeze was the Master Sword, when Link drew it from its pedestal, the flow of time resumed, the seal keeping Ganondorf restrained was severed, and he gained his powers back once again. In short, the bulk of Ganondorf's power wasn't sealed by the Master Sword directly, it was sealed along with the rest of Hyrule, with the Master Sword being the key to unlocking it.
What's with Cyclos?
- When you encounter Cyclos on the Great Sea, he berates you for not fearing the gods and prepares to draw you into a cyclone. Then you shoot him three times, and he commends Link for being able to even see him and teaches you a very useful song. It was mentioned on Dragon Roost Island that Cyclos was originally mad because his tablet at the Wind Shrine had been destroyed, but his own dialogue suggests that he was instead simply waiting for someone worthy of using his power. What's up with him?
- I know it was the pirates' fault (sort of) that the Helmaroc King was brought to Outset Island, but how does Quill know that the bird specifically mistook Aryll for Tetra when he kidnapped her? Even he points out that both of them have long ears - how does he know the bird didn't just see a long-eared girl and decided to try kidnapping her regardless of who she was?
King of Red Lions sailing
- As soon as you meet him, the King of Red Lions admits he's useless without a sail. Then how in Sam Hill did he get Link from the Forsaken Fortress to Windfall Island? Did he really cruise all the way there?
- Perhaps he encountered a Big Octo and was swallowed then spat out in Windfall.
- Since it is actually possible in-game to move the boat slowly without using the sail by pressing down "R", I think it's most likely that he cruised all the way there. What causes the boat to move at all without a sail is another matter entirely (but he is a magic boat...)
- It's actually possible to move forward on a boat by moving the helm back and forth quickly. It goes very slow but especially on such a small boat it's easily possible. Since the King of Red Lions can move his head it's believable that he could move his own rudder too.
- In the in-game time, it takes about two and a half days to cross one quadrant by sail-less cruising. Forsaken Fortress is three quadrants away from Windfall Island, meaning Link's been out for seven and a half days... assuming he woke up just after the King arrived.
- We don't really know how far Link was thrown after his little visit with Ganon. Considering how far he gets thrown in some other cutscenes, it's possible he was tossed relatively close to Windfall.
- When you see Mila after being rescued, she's wearing a dress made out of sack cloth. One can understand why her father might (since he sold everything, including most likely his fancy clothes to the pirates) but there would have been no reason for Mila to get rid of her dress, fan, and accessories. That, combined with her pride and focus on her image would have made more sense for her to keep her fancy dress but have it slowly turn to rags throughout the course of the rest of the game.
- They were kinda booking it out of Forsaken Fortress. It's not unthinkable that her opulent clothing got damaged/destroyed on the way out. I mean look at the barb wire around those hammer posts alone...
- She might have sold it to buy food.
- Or maybe Tetra just made her father hand over her fancy dress in exchange for returning her, as well.
Windfall Island and Link
- How are the Windfall Island people so oblivious to the fact that Link isn't just an ordinary kid? A kid who can control the wind direction, change night to day and back again, carries around a HUGE glowing sword, can shoot special arrows (including light arrows), and wears an obscure looking mask. A few, such as Zunari, seem to realize there's something more to this kid in hero's clothes carrying a giant sword, since he sells Link the magic armour, which may be useful later in the game.
- Weirdness Censor. It's a congenital Link trait.
- An obscure-looking mask that used to belong to the local teacher who can't even get a group of youngsters to school? Point on the rest, though.
- One of the sailors on Windfall pretty much Lampshades this, remarking on how close-minded and disinterested the islanders are in terms of what lies beyond the shores of their home. Indeed, there are at least two people, the gossiping woman, who merely assume that Link is just new to Windfall, the Killer Bees are among many characters who make fun of his green clothes, an elderly woman finds the sight of his talking sailboat "startling", Ms. Marie even mentions that she can tell Link will become a famous, noteworthy individual someday, and...well, a lot of the other people there are sailors, who have probably seen equally strange things as Link while sailing on the high seas. Eventually, once you come to complete sidequests and do favors for a lot of these people, they don't even care if Link seems a little strange - instead, all of them come to appreciate him for it.
Girls kidnapped from different regions
- Very near the beginning of the game, Quill says that girls have been taken from "all regions" of the Great Sea. Yet, when we get to the cell, the only girls in it that aren't your sister are from the same island, and... exactly how many islands are there in the Great Sea where girls might be kidnapped from? Three? I mean, assuming Dragon Roost Island is one...
- There's also Greatfish Isle, before it was destroyed. If we're to believe that Ganondorf literally disposes of the girls after he's...examined them, as creepy as that sounds...Well, it's possible that the only reason Mila, Maggie, and Aryll were able to survive for so long because Ganondorf put off the examinations while he was busy trying to stop Link from gathering the pearls.
How many Beedles?
- Are the twelve different shop ships on the Great Sea all run by the same Beedle? If so, how is it that you can walk out of one of his shops, travel halfway across the ocean by cyclone, and end up in view of another of his shops just as soon as you plop down?
Laruto and Medli's ancestry
- Why do people seem to think that Laruto, and Medli by extension, is descended from Princess Ruto? Just because they share a similar name? Since Ruto was a princess of the Zoras, wouldn't it be more logical for Prince Komali to be descended from her as opposed to Medli?
- Royal dynasties aren't always infinite, as history has proven. A different family could have taken over at any time.
Divine intervention contradicts Ocarina of Time's backstory
- In Ocarina of Time, the Deku Tree says the goddesses left the world after they created it, and the Triforce was the only remnant of their power left behind. This implies they're clockmaker or hands-off gods and don't perform divine intervention. Which makes sense, since if they did, they could just zap the bad guys themselves instead of needing to rely on a chosen hero. Yet this game claims that they responded to peoples' prayers with direct intervention, which seems to contradict the creation myth established in Ocarina.
- I think the gods were said to have departed for "the heavens" - it's likely that they were still capable of looking after the world they had created.
- Then why all this The Chosen One business? Why couldn't they just snap their fingers and obliterate Ganon if he's such a problem for them?
- This question has been brought up several times regarding different games in the series. One theory is that the Golden Goddesses can only create, never destroy. So they can create a Sword of Evil's Bane or enough water to flood an entire world, but they can't just erase someone from existence.
- Or maybe they just can't harm Ganondorf directly because he holds the Triforce of Power.
- I'm willing to buy that the Triforce of Power grants Ganondorf some protection (though in that case it seems weird that he can be harmed by one of their creations, which is presumably less powerful than a Bolt of Divine Retribution), but that still raises the question of why he's so resistant to their indirect powers too. If they can only create, why can't they create a prison for him (and keep remaking it when he inevitably breaks out)? Why can the sages seal him in the sacred realm but divine intervention can't? Why do they do something as dramatic and collateral-damage-filled as the great flood (which did seem to weaken him, so he can be affected by divine magic even with the Triforce) instead of taking a more guided missile approach? Why don't they do anything to stop him when he shows up a third time in The Wind Waker? Supposedly the goddesses do have some investment in Hyrule and will perform direct intervention if necessary, but they're incredibly inconsistent about it. But now we may be getting into territory that's more suited to the headscratchers for the franchise as a whole...
- You're probably right about it being more series-wide at this point...but even so, it's probable that the Golden Goddesses don't have such a specific ability as, say, creating a magical prison cell to house a single criminal or striking him with a bolt of sacred lightning. We also do not know the relationship between these three sisters - it could be that Din is someone who simply admires power and the people who possess it, such as Ganondorf - I think most people can agree that Ganondorf is a pretty admirable dude, even if he is a villain. Since he is technically her "chosen one" in this regard, it could be that Nayru and Farore circumvent this by choosing agents who posses their own respective virtues - Link and Zelda - to act as representatives of their wishes in the mortal world. In this way, the three of them could maintain a sort of competitive balance, with Din acknowledging Ganondorf for his impressive feats of strength and Farore and Nayru choosing Link and Zelda to work together and stop him, while still teaming together to fix things on their own if something doesn't go as planned and the balance is upset. (Such as by Link vanishing from existence in the Adult Timeline, thus leaving no hero to "compete" with Ganondorf.
- None of the heroes are the goddess' chosen, though, unless there's a Retcon I'm not aware of. According to Ocarina of Time, the Triforce pieces embedding themselves in the three heroes' souls was an accident caused by activating the defense mechanism specifically for when someone not chosen tries to use the Triforce. Even if we do accept the chosen theory, well... You could say that Ganondorf demonstrated power and strength in his attack on the castle, but to actually get the Triforce, all he did was wait for the idiot hero to open the door for him. That seems more like a show of wisdom than power to me. It's certainly possible that the goddesses are in conflict or playing both sides (personally, I like the interpretation that they're purposefully trying to perpetuate the cycle, because it's deliciously meta), but at this point we're getting into Wild Mass Guessing territory. Personally, though, it seems weird to me that Din would admire power to the point that she would be willing to throw her prized creation under the bus for it. Although given that she only created the land itself, maybe she doesn't care about civilizations. (And though this is getting more into the "extent of the goddesses' power" headscratcher, Skyward Sword demonstrates that the Triforce, at least, is totally capable of killing people, and in a pretty precise way at that — though, interestingly, not in a way that contradicts the theory that the goddesses can only create.)
- Getting back to the main point... Perhaps we should just agree that the Zelda mythos is intrinsically nonsensical if you think about it as a whole, and it varies Depending on the Writer? Ocarina of Time used clockmaker gods because it made for a better story there, The Wind Waker used active gods because it made for a better story here.
Extent of the goddesses' power
- Accepting the premise that the goddesses do perform divine intervention, why did they have to drown Hyrule? Why couldn't they just zap Ganon with a Bolt of Divine Retribution? Even if the Triforce of Power protects him from divine magic (somehow), why couldn't they empower another chosen one to take him down? Just what are the limits of their power, here?
- They couldn't just "send another hero" because the spirit of the hero, which was first achieved in Skyward Sword, has to be reborn on its own. Since the Hero of Time no longer exists in the Adult Timeline, that means his spirit couldn't reincarnate either. It's implied that the King of Hyrule made an attempt to stop Ganon and failed, forcing the goddesses to flood the kingdom as a last resort to destroy not only Ganondorf, but also his sole motive. Years later, when the Hero of Winds departed from Outset Island in order to save his sister from Ganon, the King of Red Lions came across him and, recognizing the potential there was in Link's courage, decided to train him to attain enough spiritual growth to be considered worthy of drawing the Master Sword.
- But...they're gods. If they created a "spirit of the hero" once, they can do it again. Why are they powerful enough to create a massive flood, but not that? And why can't they attack Ganon directly? Drowning Hyrule seems a rather Pyrrhic victory, since in a way it's also destroying their life's work. Although Ganondorf implies in the ending that they didn't even bother to protect the survivors, so maybe they're just Jerkass Gods who like the neverending Link/Ganon/Zelda legend and did it all For the Lulz.
- They didn't create the spirit of the hero. Hylia chose a random boy from Skyloft, threw her mortal incarnation below the clouds in order to rouse him into saving her, and guided him in his quest to attain growth of spirit. Subsequently, Demise's curse ordained that an incarnation of his hatred would be reborn alongside those with the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero, and that they would be destined to clash whenever and wherever they meet. Meanwhile, the trials implemented in The Wind Waker were the goddesses' way of creating a new "spirit of the hero" in Link. And about Ganondorf's rant in the endgame...What he was saying was, for all the evil he had done, his intentions were to rule Hyrule, not destroy it, as the gods had probably thought. He's pointing out how ironic it is that through trying to stop him, they actually caused more damage to Hyrule than he ever would have wanted to.
- Why didn't they do the whole trial business to create a new chosen one back when Ganon first reappeared, then?
- I don't know for sure...though I'm of the opinion that Daphnes Nohansen himself may have been a sort of failed hero from before the flood...It would make sense given how regretful he is in the endgame, wishing he could have a chance to "do things over", the fact that he alone resigns himself to the fate of seeking out a new hero and training him, his knowledge of the trials housed in the Tower of the Gods...etc, etc. This shines a new light on his relationship with Link - he wants to see him triumph in all the ways the king himself had failed. It's also implied that only someone with enough courage could serve as a successor to the Hero of Time, meaning the gods couldn't simply train just anyone to do it.
Why didn't the goddesses drown Hyrule in Ocarina of Time?
- The goddesses decided to perform the great flood when Ganon reappeared to stop him from destroying Hyrule, okay... So why didn't they do that in Ocarina of Time, where he very explicitly does destroy Hyrule? Are the goddesses slow on the uptake and only realized they should do something the second time around?
- Because they knew Link would rise to stop Ganon once he had awoken from his seven-year sleep. Flooding the kingdom would be pointless in that instance.
- That is, unless we're talking about the ALttP timeline, where the Hero of Time dies and everything goes pear-shaped. His victory wasn't predestined — and it's a pretty Pyrrhic victory even so. He doesn't actually fix anything, he just prevents it from getting any worse. Hyrule does end up being rebuilt, so presumably Ganon would have done something even worse in Wind Waker's backstory if the goddesses hadn't intervened, but... still. They're willing to create a great flood to save Hyrule, but including "oh by the way pulling the Master Sword is a really bad idea" in Link's special destiny dreams is too much effort?
- Even in the instance of the Hero of Time falling to Ganondorf and sparking the existence of the Decline Timeline, the sages were still able to seal Ganon away, although what's implied is that the seal was significantly weaker and cost more bloodshed. Also, this meant that even though Link had died, the spirit of the hero still remained and could still be reborn in that timeline...All hope was not lost.
- So basically... the goddesses are outside the normal scope of time and so are able to look at the big picture, therefore they know Hyrule will be rebuilt, the reincarnation cycle will continue, and everything will be fine, even if the Hero of Time fails to defeat Ganon? Okay, I can accept that (though they're still pretty cold)... But then why don't they stop Zelda from sending him back in time, if making the hero's spirit Ret Gone is even worse than seven years of Ganon's rule? Again, they can flood the planet, but giving a single person some kind of message is beyond their powers?
Is Ganondorf's stated motivation inconsistent with Ocarina of Time?
- Here, Ganondorf says that his Freudian Excuse was that he wanted the fertile land of Hyrule for himself because living in a desert really sucks. Yet in Ocarina of Time, after he successfully takes control of Hyrule, he burns it to the ground, wasting its natural resources. He also does absolutely nothing to help the Gerudo — and assuming he's aware of his mothers' actions, he actively harms them. Was the Freudian Excuse speech just a total lie he pulled out to make himself look better?
- I believe his intentions were originally as he stated them to be, but after obtaining the Triforce of Power, his imbalanced heart and bitter, foolish mind weren't able to use its powers properly or responsibly - he let his anger, jealousy, and hatred for the Hyruleans get the better of him and sought to make their lives miserable before considering bettering those of his people. Spending countless years floating through the void after being sealed away, rampaging through Hyrule in his beast form almost to the point of destroying it, and watching as it was buried beneath tons of seawater, however, made him realize how foolish he had been in the past and, presumably, made him come to regret those foolish choices, even though he knows that he's come too far to stop himself.
- And also, Ganondorf's true intentions even as they're expressed in The Wind Waker are open to much interpretation: it's unclarified whether he wanted to actually have his people migrate into Hyrule after taking it over, or if he just wanted the kingdom for himself, or if he just wanted to destroy it outright.
Not so kind after all
- Tetra's figurine describes her as quite kind beneath her bossy exterior, and while we see bits of this more generous side of her as the game goes on...there's still the fact that she took away every Rupee of a man's fortune away from him and left him and his daughter living in the streets. How in any way is that supposed to be looked at as being any sort of a good person? She couldn't have left him with anything?
- Tetra might not have done it, instead her pirates did. Remember, they brought back the daughters and thus would have demanded all the payment, while she was with Link and then down at Hyrule Castle at the time. Had she been there, she might have been able to convince her crew to show some restraint.
- Yes, but if I recall correctly, Mila's father does mention meeting Tetra herself.
Triforce of Courage and time travel
- The ending of Ocarina of Time shows that the Hero of Time retained the Triforce of Courage when he went back in time. But if splitting the timeline made the hero's spirit Ret Gone, why didn't that apply to the Triforce of Courage as well?
- The three Triforce pieces are the basis of the world's stable existence - there could very well be some unwritten law preventing them disappearing completely due to something like time travel. In this case, the Triforce of Courage did the only thing it could think to do - shattering into eight separate pieces - in order to keep itself from leaving the adult era like its wielder had.
- Where does it say the Triforce is the lynchpin of reality? (I haven't read Hyrule Historia so there are probably a lot of details like this I'm missing.)
- A Link Between Worlds. Lorule was crumbling apart in that game because it had lost its Triforce.
- Ahh, right, I forgot how retcontastic this franchise was. Still, while I haven't played A Link Between Worlds, that seems to imply the Triforce can be lost; there are no magic safeguards in place. Courage still should have disappeared when the Hero of Time took it back to his timeline.
- If you haven't played it, then I won't spoil the whole thing, but there was more to the Triforce being lost than just that...Let's just say, a greater power was behind it. Far greater than a simple instance of time travel.
The King's true form?
- What exactly is the King of Hyrule as we see him in game? Is he some sort of ghost or apparition, possibly one that's grounded spiritually to Hyrule given he only appears in human form there? If so, how could he have gone with Link and Tetra at the game's end even if he had wanted to? Or is it possible that he's actually still alive, and that the Golden Goddesses gave him longevity in order for him to seek out the new hero? And if so, how while controlling the King of Red Lions could he not be aware of what's happening in Hyrule simultaneously (such as with Zelda's kidnapping)?