Santa was mad at Jack for obvious reasons, but it makes even more sense when you realize that Santa didn't know Jack told Lock, Shock, and Barrel to "leave that no account Oogie Boogie out of this!"
If the plot didn't have Oogie Boogie, Jack would have been unredeemed.
If the plot didn't have Oogie Boogie, Jack wouldn't have needed to be redeemed. Remember, he told Lock, Shock, and Barrel to take good care of him, not knowing that they would take him right to Oogie.
Jack might have kept his tuxedo on beneath the Sandy Claws outfit because Sally's warning bugged him more then he let on.
Or it might be an inseparable part of him. It wasn't so much as singed by that flak fire.
Consider the fact that with the exception of the titular nightmare, that the Halloween Town citizens most likely only interacted with humans on Halloween. As humans wanted to be scared on Halloween, it makes perfect sense that the citizens would assume that humans liked to be scared on a daily basis!
As the WMG page detailed, the crush between Jack and Sally may not be as one-sided as one thinks.
Jack's got really long fingers, doesn't he? But he doesn't seem to have palms; his fingers just connect to his wrist. That's because he doesn't have skin to keep his metacarpals together!
Slight problem with that Brilliance — if you look at Jack's fingers, there's only three bones to each finger. The only metacarpal Jack seem to have is on his thumb, the other fingers are the digital bones.
(counts knuckles) Oh yeah... good point.
When Jack first visited Christmas Town, he marveled at the elves kissing under mistletoe, suggesting that the concept of kissing didn't exist in Halloween Town. And at the very end, Jack and Sally kiss in the snow. So Jack did find something worth keeping from Christmas Town after all!
Except that we saw Dr. Finklestein, who has NOT been to Christmas Town, kissing his brain when he made his newest creation, so kissing isn't likely to be a foreign concept to Halloween Town citizens. More likely it's the concept of kissing under mistletoe that's new to Jack.
He does say in What's This?: Oh look, what's this? They're hanging mistletoe... they kiss? Why that looks so unique! INSPIRED! This implies he already knows what a kiss is (or he wouldn't know the word.) So yeah, kissing under mistletoe seems to be what's interesting to him.
Most people seem to think the Halloween Town citizens and the Mayor started worrying about Jack disappearing after a single day or night, but when you take into account that there are 54 days between Halloween and Christmas and they use about 36 of them to prepare their Christmas and it took Lock, Shock and Barrel that long to get To Christmas Town and back; just how long was Jack gone for? Thereís around 18 days that are unaccounted for in the movie, some of that can be counted in Jackís Christmas experimentís and him taking a few days to decide to take over Christmas, but it seems to me Jack might of been missing for more than a night, which would give the Halloween Town citizens every right to start worrying about the Pumpkin King going missing.
During the conversation where they discuss Jack's mysterious disappearance, the mayor frantically states that they have only 365 days until next Halloween (at which point Wolfman corrects him, as there are 364 days left). So yes, Jack has only been gone the one night. The citizens apparently are just that lost without him, even for a few hours.
It makes more sense if you think of it like what Christmas Town would be without Santa Claus. The elves might be able to make toys and such but without Santa Claus, they would have no one to deliver them to children.
In The Nightmare Before Christmas Jack tells Lock, Shock, & Barrel to bring back Santa Claus unharmed, before they sing a song about torturing and killing him. They do not get punished for this. But then I was looking at the entry for Blue and Orange Morality, and it clicked: they live in a world filled with The Un Dead. They were told not to hurt him by a talking skeleton. Unhurt to them is different than it is to us!
I could never figure out why Jack's voice was different during the town meeting, until I realized that he was using a different voice to make him sound more powerful and more terrifying.
Also, Danny Elfman voiced all of Jack's songs, whereas someone else was his speaking voice. They still sounded pretty similar, though.
A bit of a meta one for the Nightmare Before Christmas decor in The Haunted Mansion - at first I thought it was a bit odd since the two don't actually have that much in common, apart from being 'scary' themed. Then I realized - they're both inhabited by supernatural, scary beings who don't want to scare! (They pretend to terrorize/Grim Grinning Ghosts come out to socialise, It's our job but we're not mean/In this town of Halloween)
Also in a place that is meant to be scary, Jack gets to spread his own brand of Christmas after all with no harm done.
Courtesy of this troper's child: "Jack's so lucky. He's a cold skeleton, so snow and snowflakes don't melt when he touches them."
"Just because I cannot see it, doesn't mean I can't believe it!". This is actually a much bigger epiphany moment than I realized on a first watch. Christmas Town is based on magic and faith—the whole thing about Santa Claus as an entity and the belief that he brings you toys, etc. Halloweentown, on the other hand, is rooted in science—the Mad Scientist trope, the attempts to quantify Christmas, and discovering the unknown physically. This song is the very first time Jack has tried to understand abstract concepts like love and goodwill. The thought of actively believing in something you couldn't objectively observe is probably one that never occurred to him until just that moment.
Why does Jack believe that Santa actually has claws even after reading all those books? Santa is usually depicted as wearing a pair of red mittens, which would look like lobster claws to someone already inclined to think that way!
While pretty much everyone views Oogie Boogie as the only actually EVIL person in Halloween Town we should all remember he's not actually from there, he's from a completely different holiday and as such is also an example of Blue and Orange Morality, he's just a different kind than the rest of the town. He's not evil, he's just following Bug Day morality! After all, if the Halloween Town folks can be excused for not realising their idea of fun would be dangerous to other people and enjoying the mayhem they cause, why should Oogie get condemned for it?
There is a good amount of Squick considering the doctor's...Ahem, relationship with Sally. He treats and talks to her as his daughter (and being her creator, this is not so strange), but there's also the matter that the guy 'replaces' her with a wife and seems to have some very none-fatherly feelings for her. A certain deleted scene makes it worse, with him outright stating that he meant to obliterate Jack out of jealousy. Viewing as adults, this quickly becomes squick, but that's the whole point. The implications are creepy (just as a Halloween movie is expected to be) for the adult audience and at the same time, naturally flies over the children's heads. This really is a family-friendly film!
While it does seem idiotic for Jack to trust Lock, Shock, and Barrel to get Santa Claus, it is possible that they were the only ones who closely resemble real children, and considering the other residents in town, it would probably hard for Santa to trust any of them. Granted, they catch him before he could get a good look at them but Jack didn't know exactly how they would get them. Just that they were children, whom Santa trusts immensely.
Plus, as taking over Christmas didn't give a good example, Jack isn't an expert on planning things un-Halloween.
Santa says that Sally is the 'only one who makes sense in this insane asylum'. While he is referring to her objections to the Christmas plan, there may be another layer to it as well: Sally is a rag-doll, a toy! Just like Jack can't understand things outside of a Halloween framework, Santa relates best to the one person in Halloween Town who is also a Christmas-related object
Another troper mentioned on the main page that his 'powers' may operate on what is scary and what isn't scary... so maybe only non-scary things can hurt him... Falling from the sky = scary, while being poked with a sewing needle is not scary at all.
Then there is the possibility that since Jack is dead that means that nothing can hurt him. The man can yank off his own head and pull out his own ribs for the fun of it, for crying out loud. He may simply have been annoyed by Sally's carelessness and was just being dramatic to make her feel bad.
Another one comes from the DVD Commentary: Tim Burton said that there is no magic in Halloweentown - yet there are witches. The potion they make is quite obviously magic, though this could be an oversight on Tim's part.
The No Magic thing gets a little silly when you consider he is implying that Spiral Hill is mechanical.
Non-magic does not mean non-living.
No magic complicates quite a lot of things. If there is no magic in Halloween Town, how exactly do the dead walk around? And what would be the point of a non-magical witch? I seem to recall them flying around on their brooms in the opening sequence...
Perhaps he meant that, if moving hills and flying on broomsticks is normal for Halloween Town citizens... then it's not considered "magical" to them, and therefore magic doesn't "exist"?
Witches on broomsticks are generally accepted as part of the scenery. I interpret it as, "There's magic, and then there's magic. Halloween Town doesn't have the latter."
Since he was taken out with artillery, they may have thought that he was blown apart into tiny pieces. The mayor actually alluded to this when he said "The King of Halloween has been blown to smithereens."
Not one of the Christmas Town books Jack absconded with had a picture of Santa Claus or his description?
He may have thought "Santa," "St. Nick," and "Sandy Claws" were different people, but that's still quite a stretch.
If this is in regards to Jack's description of "Sandy Claws" in the song at the town meeting, remember he said to himself "Might as well give them what they want" when the rest of the denizens completely misconstrued the purpose of everything else he presented, he decided to present "Sandy Claws" as someone that the citizens of Halloween Town could identify with.
This may have been an intentional exaggeration of his own misconception, however. In the montage scene where Jack is trying to figure out Christmas via science, a shot shows his chalkboard with "Sandy+[drawing of a lobster claw]=?" written on it. Also when they meet:
Jack: Why you have hands! You don't have claws at all!
Remember how Sally pulled her leg off to distract Oogie while the rest of her went to rescue Sandy Santa? Next time we see them, Sally is tied up with Santa - and all her body parts are sewn back on. One assumes that she sew herself back up, until you realize that her hands were untied to save Santa. So who sewed her back together again? One sincerely hopes it's Santa, since what with Oogie already being attracted to Sally's leg, him being the one who sewed Sally back together has some pretty creepy implications.
We didn't see him deal with the snake either. Presumably a lot happened off-screen.
Oh, it gets worse. Consider the fact that the military shoots Jack down over a suburban area. This is quite a dangerous move, but think of what must of happened for the military to resort to such a tactic. Considering that a lot of the toys were attacking children, one has to ask what the helldid you doJack!?! Though this Fridge Horror is subverted when you consider Halloween Town's reaction to Oogie Boogie, it's unlikely they would make anything that would kill anyone.note Blue and Orange Morality aside, the citizens still seem to believe killing = bad Then it's Double Subverted when you realize that with Blue and Orange Morality, the citizens may not realize that human children are more fragile then Halloween Town children.
There may be an additional explanation for the military action against Jack. It would be very odd for a military base to be using searchlights any time after the Second World War, when radar became standard, and the anti-aircraft guns also fit into that time period. So, there may have been a reasonable mentality behind taking out the heavy artillery after what did not seem to be too terrible of an event, particularly with all the confusion there seemed to be.
Jack had to go to dozens of houses, and we didn't see him visit all of them, nor did we see Santa fix all of them. I highly doubt Santa would leave an old lady to die.
This troper always looked at that in a different way: The toys, while scary, just want to scare and have no intend of harming others. The people in Halloween Town like to scare, not to hurt, so why they would make toys that hurt others? Sounds like it goes against what they stand for (harmless scares and fun). The only reason they are afraid of the Oogie Boogie is exactly this one (because he enjoys hurting, not scaring). Perhaps those toys didn't want to hurt anyone, just play. (Although I wonder why on Earth they thought a giant snake would be harmless, but you got the idea).
Obviously the giant snake was herbivorous. It only swallowed the Christmas tree.
Nah man, the first time you see the Snake (In the "Making Christmas" Song), he's eating the guy who's trying to shove presents down it's throat. I don't know if you see him again, but my guess is that the Snake eventually vomits everything it eats and doesn't actually digest anything. And if you don't see that guy again, then the snake was just a plain bad idea...
The guy who got eaten was the Corpse Dad, who IS seen again during the finale, opening a window, in his pajamas. So yes, it can be presumed the snake was just playing and spit him out later.
Now, add this to the Fridge Horror: the skeletons in Oogie's lair are still sentient, so the torture doesn't stop after you're dead.
The skeletons in Oogie Boogie's lair look much more like humans than the monsters and ghouls of Halloween Town. Which possibly means that his victims were kidnapped from our world.
Averted if you think about it through another fridge trip: All manner of beasties are found in Halloween Town, including skeletons, like the ones hanging from the walking tree. Plus, it seems implied that the denizens enjoy pain to an extent, so probably the torture devices don't bother them overmuch.
However, Oogie Boogie is stated as coming from a holiday that is no longer celebrated (Bug Day). He found Halloween Town and tried to make it into the new Bug Day, but was defeated. Because he is originally from another holiday, he isn't like the other citizens of Halloween Town and appears to actually torture his victims (as he almost killed Sally and Santa, if not for Jack). He doesn't scare for fun and those skeletons are most likely past victims, not just regular living skeletons.
Another Fridge Horror moment: you don't pay attention to the Mayor's speech before Jack's take-off because of the fog rolling in (because Sally put Fog Juice into the fountain) but some of the things the Mayor praises about Jack are "you who have frightened billions into an early grave!" and "You who have eh, devastated the souls of the living . . ." That's right, Jack has frightened people to death (Then again, the Mayor could have been exaggerating). Still disturbing.
In Oogie Boogie's song; a snake keeps popping out of his mouth. But then if you think about it, that snake is probably his tongue... So every time he did that; he was licking Sandy Claws.
Sally poisons Dr. Finkelstein in order to keep him out of the way for a bit, because she knows he'll just wake up a little bit later. But what about the first time she did it...?
It's pretty safe to assume that the daughter of a mad scientist would know a thing or two about the ingredients she uses. He might have told her what they did, or used them as sleeping pills, or she asked around. It would be extremely out of character for Sally to try to kill her father.
Considering he can open his head and even tears out half his brain with no ill effect he likely isn't in danger from ordinarily deadly things. Much like Jack and Sally herself.
One of the residents of Halloween Town is a living Tree, with Skeletons being hung from his branches! Let me repeat that, A Sentient Tree Monster, with a bunch of Sentient Skeletons, with nooses around their necks, hanging from said Tree... Imagine all the Unfortunate Implications of this being, if you will...
This character is even named "The Hanging Tree."
Lock, Shock, and Barrel worked for Oogie. Now, they either didn't realize he was dead by the time they brought the Mayor to Jack, or figured it out and didn't care at the time, since all three were smiling when they threw the rope down, can later be seen dancing on the Mayor's hearse, and join in the snowfall antics. Happy ending, right? Except Oogie was probably the closest thing to a parent these three had. Which means once the festivities are over, and they realize that something's missing, there is likely going to be the cycle of mourning and possibly depression. The three of them (for good reason) aren't well-liked around town, and as we all know, There Are No Therapists. So unless someone steps up as a surrogate parent, you have three sad and depressed kids who may or may not lash out with no one else to reign in their trouble and help them cope.
Jack is at least aware of the fact that they were close with Oogie, who he himself just killed. I doubt that he would just leave them alone to rot.
Same troper from the original post. I just posted this to the WMG page (more details there), but I was looking at the back of the DVD cover and it occurred to me that the picture of Jack and Sally with the threesome dancing around them may be a hint to a happier ending. It's still (at least initial) Fridge Horror that the threesome are going to have to go through the grieving process, though.