Reviews Webcomic / El Goonish Shive

I agree completely with all the above. The pacing right now is ridiculously slow. I'm guessing that Dan just can't help himself when it comes to completely fleshing out every move the characters make in the series, referring to the inordinate amount of time spent on the boots and makeover. Also, what's the point of the forced transgender subplot? It just seems redundant to do again.

I dunno. Good artwork, overall storytelling, backstory, and comedy seem to far outweigh the problems of pacing. It's frustrating, but ultimately worth waiting for.

EGS needs a new writer, a new author and a new artist.

(EGS needs neither. Only to be rid of fans like you. What was the old saying? "With fans like you, who needs critics?" -Bork)

I think the art is fine, it's just that Dan wastes so much time attempting to perfect it that it creates horrible Schedule Slip. The pacing of the story itself isn't bad if you're doing an Archive Binge, but if you've caught up to the updates and have to wait for the next one....

I felt that it was really improving when it went through apparent Cerebus Syndrome, up to the point of the Painted Black arc's ending where it... petered out. There were still plenty of flaws even at its best, but I felt that Dan Shive was improving as a writer, and that the flaws would continue to diminish with time. Instead, he backpedalled on the drama, creating pacing problems that seem glaring even though I only read the comic in archive binges, (I go months at a time without checking it) and imparting a Trapped By Mountain Lions feel to much of the trivial content that follows (They just finished a battle for their lives, and possibly the fate of the world! Lord Tedd is still out to get them! Why do they give a crap about the school uniforms!?)

Considering that Webcomic Time is strongly in effect, very little time has passed since they were dealing with much, much bigger concerns. The zany, day to day life humor made sense before, and it could make sense again, but the characters aren't running on the same time schedule as we are. That they've all bounced back and started worrying about clothes and parties already makes them seem alien in their sensibilities. Dan could at least have thrown in a Time Skip to justify it, but generally, things happen too fast in EGS for that to fly, and it looks like they're going to continue doing so.

I think that Dan still has potential as a writer and an artist, but he backtracked on his improvement, and that, for me, is a hard thing to watch. I'll still check in, every once in a while, but he'll have to show some real growth if he's going to recapture the enthusiasm I used to have for the comic.

Agree 100%. Dammit Dan, get over it and just give us the damn story. And resolve some god-damn plots before bringing new shit in ffs.

I disagree but I guess as a perfectionist writer a sorta understand a perfectionist artist. He's doing El Goonish Shive for himself, not the audience (which I say is how it ought to be) thus if he feels it's not good enough for his own taste yet then he won't think its good enough for putting up on for the readers. I think the plot and art are well worth the wait and would rather get slow gold than rushed garbage.

My problem isn't so much that he updates sporadically, it's that he keeps posting things like "next story comic will be on day X" or "I'm starting a MWF schedule" and then failing to update. He could only update it once a month and I wouldn't care.

I agree that he should hold himself to a standard of quality, and think that it's good for the overall quality of the comic, but he is aware of the fact that he has readers, and he values them. Like I noted above, he even panders to them on occasion. I'm not saying that he needs to start posting crappy Filler, but at the very least he needs to start giving him more time to get the comic the way he wants it. I wouldn't complain if he switched to a once or twice a week format, so long as he sticks to it.

I disagree with all of the above. Every flaw that you or your commentators have listed simply boils down to a dismal lack of patience on the part of the reader.

There are no problems with the pacing, nor with the length of the arcs. Take into account "The Lord of the Rings" by J.R.R. Tolkien: None of the main arcs were resolved until the end of the 2nd book, and Most werent resolved until the end of the third. EGS is just beginning it's third book in the series, and it is doing the same thing. Daniel Shive is doing exactly what J.R.R. Tolkien did in regard to the method of resolution of story arcs, yet he's performing badly? Surely not! When EGS is complete, and all the story arcs are resolved, we will either thank G_D that Daniel did not listen to us, or we will kick ourselves for forcing him to rush the comic to the point of it being as episodic and pointless as the Pokemon anime. Surely, we do not want this to happen.

As for his schedule, the only reason he has one is because the hopelessly impatient peons, who are also the most vocal peons, cannot stomach the thought of not having a new page every day.

As a side note, we must not forget that, ultimately, Daniel Shive is writing this for Daniel Shive. If we, the unpleasable fanbase, continue to drain his will to write with our baseless accusations and uninformed opinions, he may get to the point where he simply leaves EGS unfinished, and I will spend the rest of my days wondering what it could have become. Also, we must not forget that Daniel Shive has far more experience and knowledge in the field of cartooning than the grand majority of us. How many of you can state, honestly, that you have an 8 year old, still-going-strong webcomic?

We must be patient! If we are patient, then I promise you, unpleasable fanbase, that the reward Daniel Shive will provide will be well worth it!

BTW, it's currently sticking to a MWF format. Hopefully it lasts...

I don't really care enough one way or the other to voice my opinion but I do think this should be pointed out: Shive freely admits that he introduced Lord Tedd WAY too early, before he knew better, and an unfortunate consequence of that is that readers shouldn't expect any development on that front anytime soon.

I don't know if I'd say the Schedule Slip is awful. I mean... do you guys read a lot of other webcomics? One comic a week is not some horrible, atypical thing... unless you're Andrew Hussie, who is a god among webcomic folk.

I mean, jeez, some comics go on hiatus for months without the creator saying anything! It happens, and it's annoying, but Shive at least tries to give everyone something, even if he is a tad perfectionistic.

Bork: Wait wait wait. Were you seriously comparing Dan Shive to J.R.R. Tolkien?

What.

"I disagree with all of the above. Every flaw that you or your commentators have listed simply boils down to a dismal lack of patience on the part of the reader."

It's okay to expect basic things like a schedule from an online writer. While yes, there is a point where readers can go too far and ask the world of an author, no one's doing that here. If an author promises a Mon Wed Fri schedule, then it's alright for someone to voice their displeasure with that.

"There are no problems with the pacing, nor with the length of the arcs."

You see, there is a fundamental difference between being able to appreciate a work despite its flaws and just simply closing your eyes to anything less than perfect. Yes, there are some issues with pacing. Desertopa hit the nail on the head in that regard.

"Surely not! When EGS is complete, and all the story arcs are resolved, we will either thank G_D that Daniel did not listen to us, or we will kick ourselves for forcing him to rush the comic to the point of it being as episodic and pointless as the Pokemon anime. Surely, we do not want this to happen."

I don't see why one voicing their opinions over pacing issues is going to cause the entirety of the storyline to be completely devastated. Maybe Dan just shouldn't make schedules he can't keep.

No. No, he wasn't. He was pointing out an undeniably good book that 'suffered' from the pacing problems mentioned above, in order to make a point that they aren't problems with the pacing but with the readers' patience. (I will neither support nor oppose that stance.)

I'm pretty sure that nobody makes serious comparisons to Tolkien unless they're fawning on some published author's message board.

I think that Shive thought the story was getting too serious too quickly. I remember reading somewhere (possibly here on Tv Tropes, of all places!) that he didn't want the story to be all bleak and dark to begin with, and that the Damien arc was moving things along too quickly.

While I DO think the Painted Black art was great, I still read EGS for the stories Dan makes for his characters. That's what it's all about, anyway: there's an overarching plot about Pandora and the like, but the real focus is on the characters.

Alot of what you said I can not agree with. Especially with the "Dan's varying art styles". Lets use you as an example. Let's say you were an aspiring comic artist, wanting to find your style. What would you do? You'd experiment. Your argument behind it was very flawed.

One thing I can agree with; He needs to touch on some of the minor arcs (Lord Tedd Especially).

I don't like to be "that guy," but Bork, your post was one of the most pretentious things I've read in a long time. "Peons?" Really? You're not even using it correctly! And there's nothing wrong with criticizing something, even when you don't have experience in it. Saying that a writer can't be criticized by someone who hasn't written a webcomic is silly, and honestly a little dumb. It honestly makes you look like a sockpuppet of Dan's (at the most), or at the very least a yes man. So thank you, Bork, for providing us with some unintended comedy.

Also, as a word to the wise: you really shouldn't hold something to be completely perfect, like you are. It's just a webcomic, a pretty good one at that, but to attack other people (even people who like it) just because they criticize it makes you look pretty bad (and, as stated earlier, pretentious). It's not perfect.

Regardless of your opinion on pacing, Lord Tedd isn't a viable example simply because Dan mentioned it being introduced too early and that he wasn't going to reintroduce him for awhile. That is all I had to say. Carry on!