Looks like the site has reverted to the old page length standard, not getting the alert anymore. Glad we weren't too hasty. We'll return to this if the issue returns.
I am starting to feel like OBJ is more of a notorious player who weird antics like the dog urination celebration and ever increasing toxicity caused the Giants to trade him to the Browns, where his behavior and injury woes were still a massive problem and eventually led the Browns to decide he wasn't worth the hassle. Although he won with the Rams and did have some bright spots, they are typically overlooked. And combine the weird episode he had on the plane where his insubordination to put on a seat belt and going in and out of consciousness caused the plane to land and all the passengers to deplane as well. To add more insult to the plane episode, body camera footage has surfaced showing OBJ was continuing to be violent and combative with cops and this latest episode might be the straw that ends his NFL career
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Again, like with Kamara, feel like that's an overreaction. OBJ's NFL career *might* be over, and his off-field persona has arguably eclipsed his on-field fame, but that doesn't change that he was/is one of the most famous names in the sport for several years, and he hasn't faced any suspensions or jail-time like those on the other page.
Again, the deciding factor for me in these situations is "what is the player better known for?" For OBJ, it's still his spectacular catch, prolific early career, and then that Rams Super Bowl coming in mid-season. The plane episode was ugly, but he wasn't arrested, and his "toxic" attitude toward the end of his Giants/Browns tenures wasn't any worse than plenty of other receivers (TO, Moss, Ochocinco, etc.) still listed here instead of "Notorious". (In fact, Moss and Ocho had actual legal issues that would better qualify them for that page, though I still wouldn't move them.)
Another case where the notoriety doesn't surpass the popularity.
I'd mildly caution against adding players whose main claim to fame comes from their rookie season. Plenty of these guys drop off the face of the Earth and we don't want to end up with future Anthony Thomases and Kiko Alonsos cluttering up our folders. Unless they do something really spectacular...league MVP, driving force on a Super Bowl winner, that sort of thing...I'd hold off until after year three.
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I would typically agree... but penguins! If Waddle falls off, we can always remove him. Waddle also broke a pretty long-standing league record (the two rooks you mentioned just had good-for-a-rookie debuts).
Edited by Claystripe
Ancrom and I have been discussing whether two-way players might be better suited to their own folder over with Jim Thorpe on the OG page; thoughts?
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I support it. Some of them, it is hard to define their primary position, as they played all 60 minutes of the game. Would end be considered a two way position? I'm wondering as I was reading what I believe to be official stats and, for Dilweg, he was a great defender and a great receiver in his era.
Yeah, old ends went both ways. I think that guys like Sammy Baugh and Don Hutson should stay where they are; despite having great success both ways, they revolutionized a certain kind of playstyle associated with modern specialized positions. Other players are a lot more rounded.
Baugh is definitely well rounded, but is definitely seen as one of the best quarterbacks of his era. I think Hutson is more offensive, as he took over the game in the 30s when passing became more accepted.
The wide receivers folder has over 50 entries, usually the point we'd split it. I know BB has suggested it before, but how do we feel about unpinning Don Hutson and Pudge Heffelfinger?
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Works for me. Heffelfinger in fact predates the NFL and is a holdover from when these used to be on the American Football page years ago. Could even see him being moved to the page with Jim Thorpe.
I think unpinning those two works for me. I think splitting the wide receivers is a good idea into A-M and N-Z or whatever works. I think word trimming to cut down on natter and editorializing would be good.
Plus, I think saying "the team in Boston" or "the team in Washington" creates a weird flow of words. I know the former nicknames are considered "racist", but Wikipedia has never erased the former nicknames on any entries related to the time. I think we should follow that rule, just to keep that team more consistent with it's other NFL counterparts. We shouldn't blame or hold the players/coaches responsible for their tenures with those teams. Only Marshall, Dietz and Snyder deserve to be held accountable for their actions.
Edited by wesker56
"The team in" is unnecessary, but I think just "Washington" is totally sufficient. Wikipedia is a formal reference site; these are pages for fun, there's a large enough number of people who don't think those names are fun that even the organization gave up on it, and it's pretty easy to write around in most cases.
OK. It gets confusing, as it means we have to make a distinction for the university of Washington if a player played for both Washington teams. That would get confusing
It already happens with Miami. When needed to for clarity, we just add "University of" to distinguish the college.
It just feels like a punishment for these players. I hate doing this to them, as it's almost the equivalent of a teacher punishing the whole class for the actions of one student or because the teacher is nasty.
I was looking up players and ran across Brandon Marshall. I want to put him here for the following reasons, as these are his good points: 6x Pro Bowler 12,000+ receiving yards First to have 1,000+ receiving yard seasons with four different teams First and third most receptions in a game
But he is also got a big time history of legal issues, team rules violations and other weird incidents, which led to suspensions by the NFL and being by benching his teams, and why he could be considered a notorious player: Was arrested in 2004, while in college, for assault, resisting arrest, refusal to obey and disorderly conduct Arrested in 2007 for domestic violence Arrested again in 2007 for driving while ability impaired (that was the plea) for what amounted to a DUI Ticketed in 2008 for an illegal lane change and didn't have proof of insurance or license. (Minor compared to his other stuff) Found not guilty on a misdemeanor battery charge in 2009 Arrested for disorderly conduct in 2009 Hit a woman in a nightclub in 2012
Was benched in 2010 for failing to arrive at a physical therapy session on time Played the entire 2008 season with a numb right hand after sustaining injuries from slipping on a McDonald's bag and falling into a TV screen while wrestling with his family Tried to celebrate with a black and white glove as he said it had something to do with racial progress in 2008
He claims to have borderline personality disorder, which explains, but doesn't excuse his actions on or off the field.
Edited by wesker56 Hide / Show Replies
He also never played in a playoff game. Might be the best player ever who didn't. (Up there with Takeo Spikes in that regard.) He also holds the record for receptions in a game with 21.
I feel like we had this discussion previously on the notable/notorious distinction, but I try to take a step back and think about what first comes to mind for the person in question. For Marshall, for me, it's the accomplishments, the personality disorder, and his work pushing the league to better recognize mental health (the old green cleats).
I asked about Bernard Pollard and was told he would be more notorious. After getting input on Marshall, I think we add him with notes for off the field troubles, his mental health problems, but make it more glowing for his on the field accomplishments. He might be a HOF one day, but like you said about him and Spikes, never making the playoffs will hurt his cause and keep him down for some time to come.
"The Shit Bowl... a Losers Bowl for Losers." -Vince Lombardi
(You're right, though; if played in modern format, the Cards would have absolutely played in a few postseasons.)
Yeah, that's why I don't give as much weight to pre-merger records and odd facts. Shorter seasons, fewer playoff games, lots of weird statistical outliers... It was a different game in a different era.
Same thing with other sports, like NASCAR, MLB, NBA, etc. The 70s is when sports truly began to modernize and become more like we know them today instead of the 60s and before.
... real talk, how is this relevant for the wiki? Useful Notes are supposed to be for enhancing readers' understanding of fictional works that reference real-life. So notable players that get seen in works like Tom Brady, The Fridge, Bo Jackson, etc. make sense to be, well, useful but these examples just... don't? Most of them don't appear in fictional works, and just browsing through the entries there's a lot of just... gossip and troping real life.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
On Eddie George, it says he rushed for over 10,000 and never missed a start. However, in his final year in Dallas, he missed 3 games and started only 8 of the 13 he did play. Calls that statement into question...where did it come from?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_George
I got it from here and the citation leads to here https://web.archive.org/web/20120604162055/http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-1/Career-Flashback-Former-Titans-RB-Eddie-George/f883d645-5861-488f-8db6-d65ad8fefb0d
I think it could amended a little bit say with the Oilers/Titans franchise. As a matter of fact, I think some notes could be made, if done right, to clarify his first two years came with the Titans were called the Houston Oilers and Tennessee Oilers respectively.
The database update has reduced the recommended page length, requiring a page split. Think giving running backs their own page makes most sense, followed by wide receivers if necessary. Any thoughts?
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