I took out the plebcomics quote and my edit reason got cut off. Anyway, the comic itself is a giant straw man (especially since I'm pretty sure the artist is actually white and thus herself getting offended on behalf of minorities?)
Im sure it's not hard to find an actual example that doesn't completely undercut the credibility of this page.
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Good call. I've had this page on my Watchlist specifically because of that quote. It just smelled suspiciously like reactionary strawmanning.
The Coupling quote seems like a good replacement.
It's In-Universe, the dialogue ("It's homophobic, you stupid queen") makes the hypocrisy very clear (that she's speaking for a gay man), and it conveniently leaves out what the issue is so that we're not actually supporting any position one way or the other.
Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Not exactly thrilled about that one, either, to be honest. It invokes just as much of a strawman.
But I don't want to come across as a Commander Contrarian.
Edited by KingZeal
I think this trope is kind of inherently strawman-ish. Which is why I'm down for a quote that doesn't say what the subject matter actually is so that even if it's strawmanning, we don't actually know what it's strawmanning thus we're not "choosing a side".
Edited by Larkmarn Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
The problem, though, is that the quote brings in an outside problem (Hypocrite) to make the speaker wrong.
Here's an alternative suggestion. An opinion piece written on The Guardian by a sex worker:
"Being penetrated doesn't mean that I give my body. Being paid for sex doesn't make me more of an object than when I was working for the minimum wage. What makes me an object is political discourses that silence me, criminalise my sexual partners against my will, refuse me equal rights as a worker and citizen, and refuse to acknowledge my self-determination and the words I use to describe myself."
Edited by KingZeal
Okay, that is 100% taking a political stance. I am vehemently shooting that down.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
That's part of the problem here, honestly. I was against your quote suggestion because it only works by making the person saying it a hypocrite and Strawman Political.
I can see your point about my suggestion taking a political stance, too though.
In that case, my suggestion is that we find a quote that parodies the concept. Such as a human that gets offended that people accuse zombies of wanting to eat brains while the zombies actually admit they want to eat brains. Any quote that uses real-life problems (racism, homophobia, etc.) is either going to take a political side or be a political strawman.
Edited by KingZeal
I'd tend to agree that pretty much every quote that's been put forward has been a problem for one reason or another. It's a challenging trope to find a quote for that doesn't open a big ol' can of worms. If one can be found, great, but if not, not every trope needs a quote.
Yea, I would have to say this page can go quote free given that it's already a lightning rod for this kind of stuff anyway. So I guess it WAS hard to find a replacement, whoops!
Quotes in media can be useful, but this trope seems just a tad more complex.
Edited by Rebochan
The basic issuer with claiming that the objection of the Redsk*ns name is not from Native Americans is no more than an urban legend. The only claim I've every seen that comes close to truth is that the total number of Native Americans opposed to the name is smaller than the total number of non-Native Americans, because Native Americans are less than 2% of the nation's population. So even if 100% of Native Americans oppose the name, they will be outnumbered by non-Native Americans.
As for the claim that the patent lawsuits are brought by non-Native Americans, that provably false. The 1995 suit that was overturned was brought by Suzan Harjo, who is Cheyenne and Muscogee. She was also a big supporter of the most recent suit, which involved five Native American plaintiffs. See http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-native-american-grandmother-who-just-beat-the-redskins-2014-6
"Redsk*ns"? Now you're just being silly.
Either way, people White Knighting about the name of the Redskins is not an acceptable example, as per the page itself:
Please limit Real Life examples to someone White Knighting for a single person and the target not being offended.
Edited by 108.19.84.216 You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
Silly? Um, no, I'm following the conventions set down Native Americans who are working in this issue and want to make it clear the word is an unacceptable slur, even when referring to the football team and not to actual Native people. I don't consider being respectful of other people's wishes, when it costs me nothing, to be "silly."
If we want to talk silly, the example in question was removed over three months ago and never replaced, so the only reason to comment on this is to take a dig at me.
Edited by 98.240.221.74 My alignment is Chaotic Cute.
Silly? Um, yes. Extraneous censoring is silly. If you're going to address a problem do it directly. Altering the name of a controversial subject so that you feel better about discussing it is silly. The news article you posted says nothing about the Redsk*ns. No one ever had a discussion on how the N*zis distorted a cultural symbol for their own ends (the swastika. [The sw*stika?]).
Nor has anyone called out the K* Kl*x Kl*n for their use of the giant lower case letter T.
And actually it was to specify that it wasn't even an example in the first place, much less a wrong one. The dig was just gravy. Also, June was fourth months ago. ;-)
Edited by 108.19.84.216 You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
None of those terms are slurs. The article was not written by Native American activists and is therefore irrelevant to their wishes. And July 2nd is not in June.
Edited by 98.240.221.74 My alignment is Chaotic Cute.
Hrmm ... I'd be inclined to leave the "Redskins" entry off since this page stipulates that Real Life examples should only be about "someone White Knighting for a single person", which is not the case here - there are many people involved.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
That and adding gratuitous censoring asterisks to words is profoundly stupid.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Oh, fer crying out loud people. The entry has not been up for MONTHS. Nor did I ever put the asterisk in the non-existent entry. All I did was REMOVE a factually incorrect entry and, because I knew it was a controversial topic with lots of misinformation out there, I brought it to discussion. This whole "controversy" is about something I choose to do in my personal statements, for the reasons outlined above. I'm not forcing the wiki or other users to follow it.
Edited by 144.15.255.227 My alignment is Chaotic Cute.
Hi! I'm from Argentina and I'm completely new to the discussion system. I just wanted to see if it's a good idea to insert the Edinson Cavani case as a real world example for this trope.
A little tl; dr: the FA (Football League in England) punished the Uruguayan football (soccer) player Edinson Cavani for a message he sent to a friend, which reads “gracias negrito”. Despite the strong racial connotacion the N-word has in English-speaking countries, here in Latin America it's not a racial slur per se (unless the intent is very obvious). We use ”negrito“ as a fraternal figure, much like “dude” in the US. There are countless examples of artistic works, mostly in popular music, using the word “negro” or “negrito” in a context where nobody would even bat a eyelid. Nonetheless, Cavani was forced to apologize and to pay a fine, even when it was clear that he was chatting with a friend here in Latam, in a cultural context that's not the same as in England.
You can lookup songs like “Duerme negrito” (by Mercedes Sosa), “La cumbia del negro José” (Sonora Dinamita), “Zamba del negro alegre” (Los Huayra), and even ”Negro“ by Rubén Rada (an Afro-latino singer that's quite known in the Río de la Plata).
That being said, is it a good example for the real life section?