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Jun 6th 2019 at 2:05:08 AM •••

does kingprotea deserve a slot here??? She\'s OP though

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Aug 22nd 2019 at 2:25:43 PM •••

Concerns:

I\'ll give Chen Gong a pass due to his low rarity, but Helena absolutely does not deserve to be here, on the basis that her long skill cooldowns and relatively weak damage see her outcompeted in several niches by other servants. She\'s good, but she\'s not a game-breaker.

Similarly, I do not believe Miyamoto Musashi ought to be on here. She\'s also good, but she neither trivializes other content nor serves a vital support role. She\'s just a great beatstick within her class, just like King/First Hassan, who is neither here nor should be.

And Nagao Kagetora is seen, not as an incredibly powerful welfare in the vein of Kintoki, but as a perfectly good welfare worth raising and using in the vein of Summer Ishtar or Santa Lily, from what I\'ve seen.

To the best of my knowledge, none of them are seen as either recommendations to trivialize difficult content, as, for example, Euryale often is, to the point that they have started going out of their way to nerf her specifically and slapping charm immunity on every boss, or farming superstars as several of their peers are.

They\'re good servants that are worth using and saving for, but this isn\'t a section about that, and I don\'t think they should be here.

Aug 22nd 2019 at 5:09:44 PM •••

Agreed with all of the talking points and also another one I should go is regular BB. She\'s niche because she mainly exists to beat up Avengers through class advantage and that\'s it. There\'s no discernible reason why a player should prioritize her for non-Avenger fights so it\'s weird to see someone declare her good for all content.

It could go either way for Lancelot and Dantes since they have utterly trivialized most farming with Double Skadi but it\'s only one specific use for them.

Aug 22nd 2019 at 6:57:34 PM •••

To be fair, BB *does* have a powerful and versatile support/damage hybrid skillset as a lynchpin on an Arts team, complete with 20% charge on a free NP 5, but I suppose I can agree that, in the vein of Musashi/Kagetora/etc., I\'m not sure she\'s quite at the point of being able to trivialize non-Avenger content for either farming or challenge quests.

I guess I disagree that BB is so niche that there\'s no reason for a player, especially a free-to-player who probably has limited access to high-power characters, to use her for anything but class advantage over Avengers, while still vaguely agreeing that she probably shouldn\'t be here.

Aug 23rd 2019 at 4:30:18 PM •••

...While we await more than just two voices in an echo chamber...

I firmly think recent addition Summer Jeanne Alter should be struck too. I\'ve not played the Japanese version of the game, but every analysis I\'ve seen agrees, quite firmly, that she\'s not terrible, but her skills are actually fairly weak and she\'s definitely not a Game Breaker.

Aug 28th 2019 at 1:16:46 AM •••

Kagetora definitely isn\'t a Game Breaker, but she fits under the mega category where Wellfare system is pretty busted, due to essentially giving NP 2 SSR(Nagao does 60k damage on NP 5. Using Okita as Benchmark SSR, 28000 damage, 42000 with Mana Burst, 1.33 modifier on NP 2 = 55840. Having this strong of a bosskiller for free is a huge advantage in general even if its not \"broken\")

She\'s decisively beyond every other Wellfare, and tied with Hokusai(who also didn\'t fit as a Game Breaker even if shes real good). She\'s just not Kintoki. Kintoki is actually stupid. He could contend with proper SSR and outperform them

Of all Quick servant thats used for AOE meme only like 3 really qualifies as Game Breaker for various reason:

1. Dantes - He simply have the consistency and the damage

2. Parvati - Should be self explanatory. Parvati is so stupid that its baffling she\'s release the way she did. Some hardcore Quick team user grailed her after Ooku Challenge Quest(the Alter Ego spam) entirely because of her absurd performance

3. Lance - probably not \"broken\" but he\'s a Zerker and Zerker value if you add farming into the equation is pretty big

By all means if Nagao is here, you pretty much should put Li Shuwen(theyre very similar in power level) and things got messy from there on.

Summer Jalter is a 50-50 case. She\'s actually really amazing, people diss her because they didn\'t realize Berserker is notorious for shitty buff value. But yeah she isn\'t a Game Breaker in the slightest. Calling her \"not terrible\" is heavilly understating how good she could really be honestly, having \"actually ok buffset\" instead of \"total shit\" like 90% of Zerker is a big deal, and she have a good interaction on her defensive NP gain. Not a breaker, but her Zerk typing make her one of the more valuable wellfare for low end players

None of the SSR Saber is a Game Breaker in this day and age yeah, Musashi is good but she\'s closer to \"she\'s good because she\'s pretty complete\". Only Okita fits as a Game Breaker nowadays due to interaction with Skadi, although as ST Looper, she\'s less consistent than Kintoki Rider by a good chunk

Aug 28th 2019 at 7:01:41 AM •••

I mean, I hesitate to pass stern judgement on any and all JP content I haven\'t experienced first hand. I\'m just going off the judgements of others in those cases.

I think it sounds like you mostly agree though? Though, Li Shuwen\'s weakness was always short-term skills with long cooldowns, and I don\'t know if Nagao shares that, even if some of their raw numbers are the same in a vacuum.

And sorry about moving Summer Ibaraki into the Quick category; I just assumed she was Quick based when her entry wouldn\'t shut up about how great her Quick cards were and didn\'t even mention Buster stuff.

Edited by SpectralTime
Aug 28th 2019 at 7:45:58 AM •••

Reading the Follow system entry, it seems like it should be considered a Disc One Nuke or something more like a limited crutch good for carrying a player through just part one and not useful for anything else, and not actually a Game Breaker?

Because it was intentionally designed to get players through the story as fast as possible considering just how much content is increasingly locked behind part one\'s final boss and then is no longer used ever.

Aug 28th 2019 at 8:04:26 AM •••

I\'m of two minds, but I ultimately come down on the end of letting it stay. It\'s an option a player can take that trivializes much of the game.

Aug 28th 2019 at 8:46:10 AM •••

Nagao vs Li Shuwen is mostly just Nagao\'s Recursion and of course NP copy is more accesible(she can loop NP once with only N Px A sometimes using 1/2). IIRC they both pretty much can easilly loop once supported, and really its better to judge them post support. As far as damage peak goes, theyre pretty much the same having 1 turn C absorb, and because Li have an interlude he kept up well at Np 2 onwards, with Defense debuff going with his NP. Most of their damage comes from how powerful that NP is

And in Jp standard that doesn\'t count as properly broken anymore. For one, JP have been shifting heavilly towards AOE CQ, with Ooku as the last truly difficult CQ except for Lady Reines(which is technically ST). I honestly would say Fionn is more useful than them in majority of JP CQ so far. Kagetora would have an eh time against Summer 3 whereas Fionn actually destroyed it really hard

Iba only mentions her Quick and Third because thats really what her standout feature is and the entry was originally an extension of Raikou. The only thing separating them is really her Quick Card and her 1st. The essence behind them is still just \"Self Mod and being Buster for huge damage\"

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