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isoycrazy Lord of the Blue Star Since: May, 2011
Lord of the Blue Star
Mar 18th 2024 at 7:06:55 AM •••

Do we want to declare the five elders as spoilers off? Beyond this deluge from the last chapter, we will get more in a week's time.

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fishysaur Since: May, 2018
Mar 18th 2024 at 11:37:32 AM •••

Yeah, seems fine, we can add a warning on top of the page

There isn't an impossible dream, there are only people who give up
gjjones Since: Jul, 2016
Mar 18th 2024 at 11:48:56 AM •••

I also wouldn't object to making the Five Elders spoilers off.

Edited by gjjones He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
WanderingBrowser Since: Jan, 2001
Dec 18th 2019 at 11:12:23 AM •••

So, there's two elements I feel should be part of the "General Tropes" folder for this page, but I'm unsure of the relevant tropes. Can anyone advise?

Firstly; there's the rampant corruption in the World Government, which embodies the old saying "the fish stinks from the head", since the World Nobles are a self-reinforcing culture of decadent, depraved nobles with rampant god delusions and the Five Elder Stars are part of a secret conspiracy running the world to preserve the status quo. Whilst the basic Marine grunts are often true believers that what they're doing is just and noble, as they start climbing the ranks, they increasingly tend to be either jaded and bitter by realizing that the World Nobles are incompetent and evil, or become corrupt themselves, or just throw themselves into denying the truth that the regime is malevolent.

Secondly; the major reason the World Government survives is because it has a massive stranglehold over information. There's no "mass media" in the One Piece world, outside of World Government-controlled newspapers. This ensues that people not directly involved in events only get the World Government's spin on them, which is a big part of the reason why, for example, the depravity and cruelty of the World Nobles isn't well known unless you live inside of the "bubble" of territories within range of Mariejois that they visit directly.

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isoycrazy Since: May, 2011
Thequietman Since: May, 2021
Dec 25th 2023 at 2:38:54 AM •••

I think there's enough material to add a Kick the Dog trope to Saturn's folder. However, if added straight away, it will likely be removed under the reasoning of "Kick The Dog is not "character does bad thing" but said bad thing must be necessary in the character's introduction scene to show that he's a jerkass/villain" Whilst I disagree with that definition, I would argue that everything we've seen of Saturn in the flashback is his actual character introduction, as we're not really gotten to know him as anything but a vague background character for most of this manga. Can we use this to add Kick the Dog to his folder?

Likewise "Would Hurt A Child is not "x hurts a child" but "an introductiory scene shows the character hurting a child to demonstrate how vile he is";" — I would argue that as of present, given he's crushing Bonny throughout this flashback and ordering her dead, not to mention his attack on a child Kuma and the slaughter on God Island, he would also have grounds for that to be added.

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isoycrazy Since: May, 2011
Dec 25th 2023 at 4:47:59 AM •••

So, treat Saturn more as a flashback character because his "present" time screentime is so minimal? And these incidents are more exclusive to Saturn alone over the Ohara incident when all five were there. It seems logical to me.

Jampolo (Life not ruined yet)
Dec 25th 2023 at 8:20:22 AM •••

I disagree with those definitions as well

My brother is proof of God's existence, because Satan is clearly real.
Thequietman Since: May, 2021
Dec 25th 2023 at 10:58:23 AM •••

@isocrazy — Well, it was more for the sake of trying to find a middle ground over the reasoning of adding the trope, so this doesn't escalate. Personally, I disagree with the definitions and think the tropes should be added, but I wanted to see if others agreed or if there was room for finding a third option to add them under.

Thequietman Since: May, 2021
Dec 28th 2023 at 8:52:30 AM •••

Relatedly, does anybody else agree that saturn deserves the Jerkass trope? It's just been removed because "this trope is about being an unpleasant person, not a villain" - but most villains are unpleasant people by default, so I think it should count.

Jampolo (Life not ruined yet)
Dec 28th 2023 at 9:09:31 AM •••

I think being a Jerkass carries a certain air of obnoxiousness not just to those beneath you, but to your peers as well.

My brother is proof of God's existence, because Satan is clearly real.
fishysaur Since: May, 2018
Dec 30th 2023 at 9:06:31 AM •••

Yes, most villains are unpleasant people by default, but, as Jampolo said, you must be sure the character acts obnoxious to his peer as well. Acting like a villain (i.e. considering humans insect or ordering a person's mind to be erased) is not the Jerkass trope. Otherwise, Jerkass would become synonimous to villains. For the same reason, the Jerkass trope was removed to Kaido and Big Mom (and their examples were discussed in the Is This An Example thread)

Also, those definitions were not made by me, but were in the main page, just check the laconic definition

Kick the Dog: An unjustified, nasty action done with no apparent gain to show how mean a character is.

Likewise, Would Hurt a Child is, by the main page, a subtrope of Kick the Dog (thus, even if we find a middle ground, we can't add both tropes) where the character's defining action is hurting a child

Edited by fishysaur There isn't an impossible dream, there are only people who give up
DeeeFoo Since: Feb, 2014
May 16th 2023 at 5:26:14 PM •••

With the newly revealed Holy Knights, I was just wondering which section they would go under?

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isoycrazy Since: May, 2011
May 17th 2023 at 7:42:55 AM •••

It probably depends on who they are subservient to. Ifvthey answer to the Celestial Dragons only, then them. If they are protective of the hq itself, a general spot.

DeeeFoo Since: Feb, 2014
Jun 6th 2023 at 1:52:18 PM •••

It seems they don't have an entry yet. I was wondering if it would be appropriate to create one for them? I'm assuming they go under the "World Nobles" folder.

IronBlock2 Since: Jun, 2022
Jul 25th 2022 at 3:25:09 PM •••

This was brought up on the main character page's discussion a few years ago, but since nobody's acted on it I'll revive that discussion here. I don't like where Imu's folder is currently located (anyone who knows who Imu is should know why their current placement is a big issue) and I think they should be moved to another section of the page. I'm thinking either moving them to the Employees/Associates section or moving them to a section by themselves marked as "Others". I saw a proposition to put them in another section called "Spoiler Characters" but I think that would be redundant given there would be a major spoiler warning for Imu in another place regardless. What are your thoughts on what should be done with Imu's entry?

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partner555 Since: Dec, 2010
Jul 25th 2022 at 5:17:24 PM •••

My first instinct would be to just rename Imu’s folder to Spoiler Character.

gjjones Since: Jul, 2016
Jul 25th 2022 at 6:23:25 PM •••

According to the Administrivia.Handling Spoilers page, "On Characters pages, do not ever conceal the name of a character in a folder or header."

Edited by gjjones He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Chytus Since: Sep, 2010
Jul 25th 2022 at 6:27:37 PM •••

That would be against the rules. As per Handling Spoilers: "On Characters pages, do not ever conceal the name of a character in a folder or header. You can use descriptors where the character's name would be an inherent spoiler (example: "The Killer")."

Edit: I am way too slow.

Edited by Chytus
gjjones Since: Jul, 2016
Jul 25th 2022 at 6:28:29 PM •••

No worries. Just trying to help, as usual.

Edited by gjjones He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
Chytus Since: Sep, 2010
Jul 25th 2022 at 6:32:12 PM •••

As for the actual point of discussion, I believe moving Imu to the Employess/Associates section is a decent idea.

fishysaur Since: May, 2018
Jul 26th 2022 at 2:44:45 AM •••

I agree with Chytus

There isn't an impossible dream, there are only people who give up
isoycrazy Since: May, 2011
IronBlock2 Since: Jun, 2022
Jul 26th 2022 at 7:51:49 AM •••

Alright, I'll go ahead and have Imu's entry moved.

GreenLizard9 Just a nerd Since: Jul, 2018
Just a nerd
Jul 17th 2021 at 5:23:42 PM •••

Shouldn't Oimo and Kashi have their own entry rather than being put in the Enies Lobby Staff without even a picture of them? They were quite important to the arc and had a lot of speaking lines. Plus, after the events of Enies Lobby, they quit the World Government, so they really don't belong in this page anymore.

Edited by GreenLizard9 Hide / Show Replies
partner555 Since: Dec, 2010
isoycrazy Since: May, 2011
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