Ask The Tropers

Andy is definitely The Protagonist. That’s not under dispute. That said, Meryl Streep aside from clearly playing the villain is also the bigger name of the two with the longer career, so she’s gonna stand out based on just those things alone, so while there are others who draw attention away like Miranda or Emily, Andy is definitely still meant to be focused and not just the things around her.

^ Okay. But I am more worried about me potentially edit warring right now. I am just wondering if I did?

We’ll see if you can get the troper to come here and talk about it. It sounds to me like you didn’t do it on purpose.

I don't think this counts. You hid a ZCE and then cut misuse; those aren't repeated actions.

Okay. Because I wasn't sure. So I just wanted to make sure and be upfront in case I had.

Just to be clear, this trope is for characters intentionally made bland by the creators right? Because I remember reading that or being told that by another troper.

Yeah Andy’s meant to be interesting. You’re meant to get and understand her perspective.

I think I found where I was told that. Here and here.

Now while it does have a creative world with fun characters. I don't think the creators meant for her to be bland, and she has several moments where she is very funny and whacky.

Hi I’m the person who put vanilla protagonist there. I did it because as the vanilla protagonist page notes, Andy fits the mold of an every man who doesn’t have the most fleshed out personality that bounces of the more colorful people we meet in the fashion world like Miranda, Emily, and Nigel. Before I tried putting the vanilla protagonist trope there, the page already had under Ensemble Darkhorse that Emily’s actress sucked up all the attention away from Andy’s actress, and in my personal experience with this picture, I’ve heard far more talk surrounding the supporting players than the lead. Now I never heard anything about vanilla protagonist having to be a trope intended by the writer, but if that’s the case, I have to ask, why exactly is it a ymmv trope then? If a character is meant to be seen as bland, shouldn’t that then be on the main/character pages instead of ymmv? If the character has to be designed that way, then I believe the entire concept of vanilla protagonist has to be reworked in this site, cause characters like Luke Sykwalker, Jon Snow, and Tyrion Lannister weren’t mean to be bland, yet they’re listed under it.

^ Hi again. I linked where I was told that above. Weirdly have heard more about Andy and have seen her praised and many find her find her funny and charming. With her getting some of supporting actress nominations from my research. And you're entry even mentions that she has some fun and likeable moments. Also I really don't think she would become the center of the biggest ship if she was considered to vanilla. As to why it's YMMV I don't know. I think because it's an Intended Audience Reaction, but still an audience reaction.

Funny you should mention Emily's Ensemble Dark Horse entry, because I too that to the cleanup thread for that trope. As she is one of the major character, and they are not supposed to count as that. But that is besides the point.

Without having read the page, I think Miranda qualifies as Spotlight-Stealing Squad, as she draws more attention than the actual protagonist.

^She might, but I still don't think the creators meant for Andy to come off as bland, and they get roughly the same amount of attention from fans in my experience.

In fact in my experience they are talked about more then Emily now a days.

Having occasional funny and likable moments doesn’t mean that it invalidates a character applying to this. Those other examples I mentioned have them and are also highly iconic and beloved characters, much more so than Andy, yet they’re still listed. Also, while not a major part of this discussion, I checked the film’s awards, and Emily Blunt got about ten nominations, while Hathaway got two (one shared with Streep and neither in supporting), and Blunt got into the far more prestigious Golden Globes and Bafta lineups, so at least in terms of awards, she was definitely more popular. Also, even going by the argument that the character has to be intended to be a vanilla protagonist, I think Andy can apply there. The book/film is titled after Miranda, with the advertising seeming to build her role up in favor of Andy. I can understand liking Andy, but that doesn’t mean the character doesn’t apply. The description of the vanilla protagonist page is extremely fitting of her, I think she’s a perfect example. It’s not like that means she‘a a bad character, she just fits the trope.

I really don't like what you are accusing me of. Now if people disagree fine, but don't go saying I'm being of being biased here. As I really don't care one way or another about her or if she is listed as that. I am just relaying my experience with the fandom. But her backstory is to explored and her character is to fleshed out with unique quirks for me to agree that the creator meant for her to be bland. And I personally haven't seen anywhere accusing of being bland. However I could be wrong there or just missed it. Now again if people disagree fine. But please don't accuse me of trying to be biased.

Andy is a straight man of sorts. A VP could be a straight man, a straight man is not necessarily a VP.

Okay. I'm going to let others chime in. If at the end it's decided she counts, then feel free to add her back.

I’m not accusing you of anything. Your language very much looked like you’re a fan of the character, and in my experience fans of the film talk a lot more about Miranda, Emily, and even Nigel in that order. I’m not trying to be rude or judgmental. Just look at what vanilla protagonist says on the main page that I sent to you before. "Although vanilla ice cream, our protagonist, is delicious all on its own, it is the base of many other great flavors. It plays well with toppings and fixings, i.e. the supporting cast, without being overwhelmed completely or disallowing the other ingredients from shining through. Thus, a Vanilla Protagonist is a protagonist whose characteristics and background are plainer or simpler compared to the rest of the cast. This type of protagonist serves as a window by which the audience may experience more varied and colorful supporting characters. The vanilla protagonist will typically be familiar and easily relatable, giving the audience the opportunity to step into their shoes. They will usually not be too much of anything, or vanilla so to speak. The VP acts as Foil for other more unique characters the audience will encounter through them. In other words, the other characters drive the story, and the VP is simply the vehicle. The VP may have no voice for this reason." That sounds exactly like Andy and her overall role in the plot. There's plenty of characters just as interesting or even much more so than her that have been placed into this trope, I don’t see why considering her a vanilla protagonist is such a big deal. Every fan of the film that I know seems to view her that way.

Okay I apologize, but you're language made it seem like you were accusing me of being biased.

Looking at forums, I'm not getting that at all., and my experience is a lot different. Credited most of the talk about the film online these days seem to be mostly about Mirandy rather then any of the characters. To the point that it's been awhile since I saw anyone mention Emily on her own. And I don't see how one becomes a part of a big ship, that pretty much is the fandom if they are seen as land. But again I'm going to let others chime in.

Is Andy "plainer or simpler compared to the rest of the cast", or only compared to Miranda? How does she compare to the non-Miranda cast?

More plain then Nigel. She is given around the same amount of quirks as Emily in the film, with them being more explored and onscreen the Emily. With her usually being mentioned more than either of them in my experience. And is usually seen as more interesting then the rest in my experience. But again that is just my experience with the fan base.

I've said my peace, and I could see the argument for keeping her listed. So again I really don't care either way.

Anyway, it doesn’t seem like this ever reached any kind of conclusion in either way. Can the trope be added back or not? Even the user that removed it noted that they can see the argument, and it is ymmv after all.

^ Not having watched the work, I'm tempted to say yes. Bullman's argument for removing the entry seems to stem from the fact that the character in question is not intentionally designed as bland. But regardless of what the Laconic says, we can't really trope creators' intentionality when it comes to their writing/characterization decisions (barring Word of God), so that argument seems moot.

If a large portion of the fanbase is more interested about the supporting cast instead of the protagonist because she lacks any memorable quirks/traits (which is typically lacking in any Everyman protagonist), then I'd say it counts.

I say you have enough to readd. Even I admitted I don't care, and could see the argument for readding. Just link this thread.

^ My argument was also from my experience more fans are interested in her and Miranda. With the others barely being mentioned as much anymore. However, after doing some more research that has to do more with their ridiculously large shipping fanbase then their characters, so that really doesn't matter to the trope at hand, and was a flawed argument.

I am thinking that this discussion should continue on the discussion page.