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Honestly, I was just trying to keep information on the pages consistent, since some pages had them, and some didn't. Didn't realize it was such an issue. I figured if it's probably been online for a while, then the creators don't really care enough that everyone knows. Regardless of whether full names and birth dates are public information are not, I'll listen to and comply with whatever decision's made.
Public information is good and should be shared. Withholding public information is bad. dlchen is right.
^That.
I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.
^^ That's a fine argument for putting such information on The Other Wiki. But we're not an encyclopedia. Our focus is works of fiction. Even our creator pages are supposed to be focused on the creator's works, not the foibles of the person. We don't allow gossip or real-life troping of creators. Why is someone's birthday more important than the details of someone's divorce, which we don't cover as a matter of policy?
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
^I know TV Tropes isn't really an encyclopedia, but I thought the creator pages should at least give a basic overview of the person, and I assumed their names and birthdates were just basic enough details.
Firstly, we sort of kind of are an encyclopedia. What are Useful Notes? Secondly, a person's name and birthday are not foibles or gossip. A person's name and birthday are pretty much basic facts that you need to have on a Creator page, and if you don't have that or aren't willing to write it down, you probably don't need to be making a Creator page to begin with.
Speaking as a Wikipedian, names of birth and dates of birth can indeed lead to arguments and foible gossip. I think the main problem I see with dlchen's edits is the "fun and breezy" issue mentioned by Xtifr.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
^^ With most creators, that information is not relevant to their body of work. Also, many creators use pseudonyms because they want to keep their private and professional lifes apart, and have stated so publicly, so dragging that information out into the open is discourteous. We're not talking about covering up politicals scandals here, we're talking about the people behind a work who also are private people. I think that if they've at least stated that they don't want certain information to out in the open we should respect that. For many works, it's enough to know the publishing date to get an idea of why it was significant or new for that time.
I'm staggered at the suggestion that we shouldn't be allowed to put names on Creator pages, honestly.
Are we talking about two different things here, maybe? Like the sort of Creator who writes fanfiction anonymously, as opposed to actual Creators like actors and actresses and singers and authors and musicians and such? I'm looking over some of dlchen's edits and I can't imagine any reason to object to noting that John Carradine's birth name was Richmond Reed Carradine. Even if he weren't dead he probably wouldn't mind.
Edited by jamespolk
Let Wikipedia handle that sort of biographical data. It's not what we're about.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
deleted
Edited by jamespolk
That said, excluding cases where the Creator has asked our website (which is an encyclopedia of fiction) to remove specific information, I do not feel convinced legal names and important dates should be absent from the Creator page (assuming the information is available and this is not original research).
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I don't see the point of having that information here. People can go to Wikipedia or other sites if they want the info that badly. We're about works, not the real life people behind them.
We probably should move this to the forums.
Edit: bloody tense switch.
Edited by Candi Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Disagree. Entirely. It's a few extra words at most of the most basic biographical data on the planet. I'm not going to go running around adding it hither and yon (because, frankly, I really could not give less of a shit), but I see no reason to take it off where it already exists, and I don't even begin to understand why anyone thinks we should.
(That was not an invitation to attempt to explain it to me.)
And I'm out.
I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.
Indeed. This whole discussion has been deeply strange.
Biographical data such as birth dates is not relevant to TV Tropes mission. The only life story data that might be relevant is how it affects the works we document. Anything else is irrelevant and unnecessary to have on any page. That's what other sites are for.
(On affecting, Katharine Kerr had health issues partway through writing the Deverry series. She explained the delay in-universe by a fictional lawsuit against the "real" author who Kerr was "translating from". It's a funny bit of Trivia, but the details of Kerr's health issues would be irrelevant on any TVT page.)
Edited by Candi Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Closing this since it's now a discussion that ought to take place at Wiki Talk.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ok, I'm honestly not sure about this one, so I'm appealing to the Hive Mind.
For quite a while now, troper dlchen 145 has been editing creator pages (or at least author pages—that's what's on my watchlist) to add full names and dates of birth. When I first noticed, I thought this was great. But on reflection, I'm not so sure...
Many creators (especially actors) are very sensitive about their birthdays, and really don't want that information out there. A few, I believe, have tried (unsuccessfully) to sue The Other Wiki to try to get their birthdate removed. I doubt we're in danger of getting sued, but I see no reason why we should be angering random creators. We're not an encyclopedia.
Likewise, full names and middle names that the person doesn't use may be names they hate. I, for example, hated my middle name so much that I had it legally dropped. And I know a number of Bobs and Dicks who hate being called Robert or Richard. We're not an encyclopedia; we don't have to rub that hated middle name in some poor creator's face.
Finally, we're not an encyclopedia. We're supposed to be somewhat fun and breezy. And "Bobby Fry is a wild and crazy guy" is a whole lot more fun and breezy than "Robert Augustus Fry, Jr. (born 12 August, 1992) is a wild and crazy guy". :)
So...I'm not entirely sure what the right thing is. What dlchen 145 is doing is probably great for a lot of our pages (especially pages for dead people, who won't complain), but I'm not sure it's something we want for all our creator pages.
I will, of course, be inviting dlchen to comment here. But I'd like to hear what others think as well.