Ask The Tropers

Uh, what page is this going on? What work? We got little context to work with here. When we don't know the scene, we can't help.

Talk about A Silent Voice and the scene in the last chapter, where after a little misunderstanding it turns out that one of the girls has a ring on the ring finger given by the heroine with an ambiguous orientation. Today, another user removed the mention of this from the page of the characters, arguing that this is "only a misunderstanding and nothing more."

Les Yay is very YMMV: it's about how fans choose to interpret a scene. Saying that it's a misunderstanding misses the point of the trope. And in general, YMMV examples can only be removed if they're misstating facts (for example, if the scene doesn't happen as described).

It was not about adding Les Yay directly to the page of characters. The problem is that the user deleted the examples with Ambiguously Bi, only on the basis that in his opinion, this scene was just a joke, adding along with this statement that the work does not touch the orientation of the character, which is not true, to put it mildly. I can not judge the motives of my opponent, but judging by the fact that he was trying to add a postscript "The last instance is revealed to be a case of Ueno trolling her friends and is mortified when Sahara reveals who gave her the gift in the first place" to Les Yay on YMMV, this is a conflict of understanding of the scene.

You're now asking a completely different question. Les Yay is an audience reaction where audiences see lesbian subtext in a scene where there is none.

I don't know the work so I can't comment on whether Ambiguously Bi applies but it is a grossly overused trope. In fact Ho Yay and Ambiguously Bi are pretty much mutually exclusive in regards to the same scene. The context given on the page is insufficient. It seems like Homoerotic Subtext might be the best fit.

I raise this issue because one of these girls seems to have been deliberately created as a Cliché Storm for lesbians in Japanese culture, and from my experience, such tropes are always based on the perception of the character's relationship. But I'm afraid that this will turn into a dispute about the "true" meaning of this scene.

Well, what should we do? Until the end of time, argue about "what is the true meaning" of the scene?

The work in question is "Koe no Katachi", otherwise known as "A Silent Voice". The scene in question occurs in Chapter 62's 12th page.

The scene details a friend of Ueno - the character in question - noticing that she has a ring on her finger. Ueno plays it up as a gift from somebody that she met in Tokyo, saying that they're "tall, gorgeous, and have their own fashion line". Her ruse is quickly put to rest as the person who actually gave her the ring, Sahara, points out that she was the one who gifted her with the ring. Ueno is mortified at being found out and says nothing for the rest of the page.

This scene was, according to Little Buster, enough to classify Ueno as "Ambiguously Bi". I must disagree. Trying to prank one's friends into believing that she "met someone" using a ring that she got from a friend hardly implies a romantic attraction to that friend, no matter how you spin the current definition of ambiguity, and as such would mean that the character in question shouldn't be labelled as "Ambiguously Bi" - especially since this scene is the only "evidence" in the case arguing for Ueno's status as "Ambiguously Bi".

The solution is not "to argue until the end of time", but rather to discern whether or not the character actually fits the trope that is being applied to them.

I have to repeat it again. You can not delete examples with ambiguous tropes only on the grounds that you have another interpretation of them. Only Word of God can denote their "true meaning".

Except you're trying to construe using a gift as means of tricking her friends as attraction to Sahara. That isn't even ambiguity.

Can we get an impartial third party on this, please? It seems that Little Buster and I aren't able to get across to each other. At least if we can present our cases to others, we might be able to get somewhere.

That is, do you deny any other understanding of the scene other than yours? Well then I do not know how this dispute can be resolved without moderators.

Call the moderators if you think that that's the way it's gotta be settled. I'll listen to them either way. I feel that Larkmarn's insight about the overuse of Ambiguously Bi is something that shouldn't be ignored, though. People keep trying to shoehorn scenes like this into it just to add more tropes to a character's page, or for more shipping, or the like. At the end of the day, you are trying to argue that the prank depicted here - https://imgur.com/a/FifL4 - is supposed to denote some form of romantic attraction, when it's quite clearly a character trying to play up a gift as "finding someone" - and THEN accusing me of "forcing my interpretation on you". I have a problem with that.

Regardless, I will yield to whatever ruling the moderators pass down.

Not a mod, but that scene seems like Not An Example of Ambiguously Bi but fine for Les Yay.

Have you ever thought about the fact that what is "quite obvious" to you can be interpreted by other people? I see this as an attempt to hide a gift from another girl, and I think this is an obvious hint. But why am I not trying to convince you of my interpretation?

At us now the majority of articles with Yuri Bait is based on that girls are defined by tropers as ambiguous lesbians on the basis of a heap of Les Yay scenes. Why in my case is it not so? Not to mention that the Sahara herself is the embodiment of Les Yay in all manga.

I agree that it could fit under Les Yay, if only because Little Buster is providing proof of such an audience reaction.

And Little Buster: you assume too much, if that's what you're going for. We have seen how Ueno acts when attracted to a person. This is not it.

You do not understand how this works. If we clearly saw that Ueno has romantic feelings for the Sahara, then this scene would not be ambiguous, and Ueno herself would not be ambiguous bi. Then they would be the canonical lesbian and bisexual

>if it is confirmed, Ueno is canonically bi >if it is not confirmed, Ueno is Ambigously Bi

Forgive me for departing from the standards of mature debate, but... you have got to be fucking joking.

And no. I believe that you are the one mistaken about the facts regarding this scene. Ueno gives no hints whatsoever within it, other than not automatically stating that Sahara gave her the ring - which isn't even a hint according to anyone other than you. Never mind the fact that even Sahara herself isn't acting like there's anything particularly special about the ring, and offhandedly pointing out that she was the one who gave it to Ueno.

I am outright done arguing about this with you. You said you'd get mods; do it if you are still so inclined. I feel that Larkmarn has hit the nail on the head, and am confident that I did not err when making the edit that I did.

That is, in your opinion, if there is no confirmation of the homosexuality of the character, then she can only be straight? Are you kidding, or are you in the "next" time did not understand what I want to say? I know what you think, but that does not mean that this is the truth that everyone must accept.

I'll answer that, but only with a question and a trope: are YOU saying that Everyone Is Bi until proven otherwise?

Yeah, I think I'm done here.

What kind of absurdity? It's just about a specific character. You either try to troll me, or do not understand how orientation's tropes work.