Ask The Tropers

Can you give some examples of entries that are biased or natter, to be more specific? (Full disclosure: I regularly contribute to that show's page too).

" Acceptable Targets: Virtually anything or anyone that doesn't fit into the show's version of Christianity."

" Critical Dissonance: Played with. While many Christian and family-oriented critics and viewers praised the show's family friendliness and somehow became the number-one show on the WB, there are many people who just can't understand what all the bother was about, often criticizing its acting, dialogue, writing, and overall plot arcs. "

" Moral Event Horizon: Many fans thought Annie crossed it when she threw the twenty-something Matt and Lucy and the then underage Simon and Ruthie out of the house and forced them to live in the unfinished (read: no furniture or plumbing) garage apartment until they agreed with her opinion that Mary coming home was a good thing. Ironically, Mary eventually became The Scrappy and general "disappointment" of the Camden family in later seasons and Annie would pretty much cringe if you even mentioned her name. "

" Pandering to the Base: What some assumed the show creators were doing — essentially crafting a show to appeal to a demographic that most other shows have nothing but venom for. Things like the above-mentioned point in Fridge Logic don't make much sense... unless they're less trying to reflect what they see as reality and instead prey on the fears of the religious (that "Christ has been taken out of Christmas"). Considering the sheer amount of Narm, you could almost interpret the show as a Stealth Parody or Take That! that kept itself low-key enough to be loved by the people it was actually mocking. It wouldn't be the first time a character meant to mock conservatives ended up being popular with them. See The Simpsons, Family Ties, and All in the Family. "

" Snark Bait: Read the Television Without Pity recaps! Before the 'cappers ultimately began vomiting at the sight of the show, of course.

The show could also be seen as Bile Fascination because of its sheer narmness. "

" Values Dissonance: Out of universe example. For conservative Christian viewers whose morals match up with those of the Camdens, there's no difference, but for the casual viewer...oh, yeah. Some subjects, such as gun control, anti-smoking and drinking, and no sex before marriage, would turn off any viewer that wouldn't bat an eye at any of those topics. Yet, the show had a significant following that led the show to becoming the longest-running family drama in American television history. "

" Vanilla Protagonist: The Camdens could technically fall into this category, for viewers who were more interested in characters that would evolve over a series instead of characters that remain virtually the same throughout the entire show. Let's see: Eric and Annie are the Good Parents, with Nice Guy tendencies (though Eric also falls under Overprotective Dad, Annie My Beloved Smother); Matt was the Generic Guy and the responsible eldest kid; Mary was the Academic Athlete who later became the Bratty Teenage Daughter; Lucy was the boy-crazy Clingy Jealous Girl at times; Simon also a Nice Guy who later succumbed to Wangst, and Ruthie was the sneak of the family. While the characters did mature (though their character traits weren't tweaked too much), and we are meant to believe that the Camdens are good-natured, intelligent people (over and over again), when you compare them to more complex characters of various other shows during the same time period (e.g. The Sopranos and Six Feet Under, which both also focused on families, just not in the family-friendly sort of way), the Camdens seem boring and nothing more from their simple characterizations. "

There are additional violations in some of those examples.

The Acceptable Targets examples is a ZCE.

The Moral Event Horizon example violates Examples Are Not Arguable and has Word Cruft (namely: pretty much).

The Pandering to the Base entry has Word Cruft (namely: essentially, "above" to reference earlier entries).

The Snark Bait entry is a ZCE.

The Vanilla Protagonist entry violates Examples Are Not Arguable, and there is parabombing.

Looking at the page myself as someone that's never seen it, it honestly feels someone with a serious hateboner for religion has gotten a hold of the page and spewed their dislike of Christianity all over it.

The Moral Event Horizon example is absolutely not biased, it objectively describes exactly what happened on the show.

The rest are debatable yeah. Probably too long-worded.

To those who say everything on that page is hateful: this show has always been, by Christians and non-Christians alike, a point of discussion of whether it was good in its portrayal of Christians / people with conservative values or not, and most consider it not to be (just take a look at the Imdb reviews...)

EDIT: Taking a look at the Moral Event Horizon example again, I now see and agree there's natter there indeed ("Many fans thought").

Values Dissonance doesn't quite line up with the trope page. The page is about how tropes don't age/travel well -not about how values themselves are perceived.

That's not natter, that's Word Cruft. Also, the Moral Event Horizon has to be considered one In Universe. Its not there for people to complain.

^^I'd argue there's not much of a distinction. "Travel well" is equally applicable to different cultural groups within one nation, IMO.

The way it's written doesn't reflect that, though. It's a general criticism of values and statement of value conflict with no reference to anything trope related.