Fire Emblem

Fates Dragons and Archanea Dragons are unclear the specific details of how they work despite the similarities. So we don't really have a measure for exact representation. They definitely act like Nah will have a much longer lifespan than a human in Tikis support with her, whereas Corn ages like a normal human. Much like Nils and Ninian do in human form.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jan 4th 2019 at 4:37:10 AM

We know at least that Immortality Begins at Twenty doesn't seem to apply to Archanean dragons, unless Tiki turns out to be odd even by dragon standards or something.

Speaking of dragons, something I'd like to see (but probably never will) is a multi-headed dragon. Their human form is actually a bunch of humans that can walk around and act independently, though they need to be together to turn back into a dragon. To compensate for this, said multi-headed dragon is very powerful when back in its true form.

Could make for an interesting boss fight: phase 1 has you dealing with several manaketes, while phase 2 has them turn back into a huge dragon.

Pretty sure that's an idea could be explore in 3 Houses.

The whole reason why I don't find Nowi hooking up not nearly as squikish with anyone not Donnel or Ricken is because of her Hidden Depth. I originally hook her up with Libra because I was jokingly doing the Pedophile Priest, but it became one of my favorite pairings in the game. Nah's personality only made me reinforce my pairing.

That being said, they should never do something like that again. Which obviously they won't

Personality seems to be a big factor for the whole thing. Nyx really isn't that much better than Nowi, but no one gets on her case, in part I suspect because she consistently acts like a grown woman.

The way I always explain the difference is that if you took Nowi out of context and had her act the same way, you'd assume that she's a child. If you did the same to Nyx, you'd assume that she's an adult woman who happens to be very petite.

x3 Would be kind of neat if they did explore it, though I doubt they will.

So here's another thing I doubt they'll do for Three Houses, but would be kind of neat if they did: create three different box art representing each of the "three houses," kind of like how Japan had four different box art for Monster Hunter: Generations for each one of the Fated Four (Westerners only got the Glavenus box art).

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jan 5th 2019 at 12:22:39 PM

Why are Donnel and Ricken this weird exception? They're actual children. If your concerns are about the pedophilia implications, then Donnel and Ricken hooking up at all should be the biggest concern. As far as I'm concerned, Nowi hooking up with those 2 is far worse than any of her other options can hope to be and anyone who actually pairs up Nowi with those 2 because her other options are 'squicky' is being a hypocrite. Keep your standards consistent at least. I'm not pointing this any one in particular because I see this sentiment everywhere. People regularly recommend that you pair up Nowi with Donnel or Ricken is just hypocritical. In the pursut to avoid implications of pedophilia, you end up having actual pedophilia.

Edited by RangerJackWalker on Jan 5th 2019 at 3:40:05 PM

You can't win with Nowi.

Funny since Nowi does bring that up with Ricken in their S-support

If you're gonna pair Donnel with Nowi don't do it because he is one of the younger members of the cast. Do it because he'll give Nah access to Dark Flier (and thus access to Galeforce).

When all else fails, just pick your pairings for the cheese strats. XD

Morals against child molestation are really about psychological rather than physical maturity, but when those are enshrined in law you have to draw the line somewhere objective. That means laws are based on temporal age, which isn't perfectly correlated to any form of maturity, but for the most part it's agreed that 16 is the cutoff point, give or take a year or two.

Fantasy can mess with this by having crazy disconnects between temporal age, physical maturity, and psychological maturity. Nowi is a bit older than 16, but appears to be physically and psychologically a child. Nyx, while having a physical body that looks like that of one who is temporally a teenager or so, is psychologically very much a mature adult.

Elise, while dressing much more modestly than either, is perhaps a closer analogue to Nowi than Nyx is. Leo mentions that she's technically an adult, despite having the psychology of a child. In Elise's case, however, it's clear that her behaviour is a coping mechanism for her abusive childhood, which is why she grows out of it in her endings; her supports with Camilla also show that she wants to be more mature in both the psychological and physical senses. Also, in my playthroughs at least, both her husbands were cautious about proposing marriage.

With Nowi, I didn't get that kind of depth. Heck, even her daughter is exasperated with how childish she is.

It seems that FE lost it's way in regards to manakete characters. Tiki is the she is because she literally only has 10 years of actual life experience. The rest of her thousand years were spent in deep sleep. She's only had 10 years of being awake and experience life with other people. That's the reason she acts like child: she mentally is one. There is no real implication that Manakete age slower mentally as well. Tiki is just an exception because of her specific circumstances. But then, that just became a trope without any of the nuance as with all future Fire Emblem games basically copy-pasting stuff from Kaga's work (especially notable in 6, 7, 8, 9/10 respectively being almost clones of FE 1, Tear Ring Saga, FE 3 and Berwick Saga respectively)

Tiki is coincidentally physically and mentally 10, so both aspects match up within the timeframe of Marth's games.

How is 7=TRS? I thought every saga game is derived from Thracia.

Edited by MayIncon on Jan 5th 2019 at 6:08:27 AM

Spoilers ahead!

The entire Black Fang plotline is present in Tear Ring Saga. There are Elwiood and Hector equivalents with near identical personalities and dynamic in the form of the two main lords, Runan and Holmes. There's a Ninian equivalent (2 actually) in the form of Enteh and Katri, both are maidens who are secretly dragons being chased by a dark cult. Almost every major Black Fang member has a counterpart as well. There's a Nergal equivalent named Guenchaos who used to be married to a Aenir equivalent named Teeta (ie, both are dragons) until they were essentially separated forever which slowly drove him mad. He now commands a dark cult and sends his enforcer, a beautiful witch named Karla (equivalent to Sonia) to seduce an Emperor named Bahanuke (think Brendan Reed) and thus gain control of his armies just like how Nergal gained control of the Black Fang though Sonia's manipulation of Brendan Reed. Said Emperor has 2 noble sons named Julius and Barker (think Lloyd and Linus) who are uneasy about the witch's influence on their father and become the Camus Archetype of the game exactly like Llyod and Linus.

Too many coincidences. And since we know that Kaga was the writer for all past FE games and had a habit of making elaborate plot notes for future use, it's safe to conclude that both Tear Ring Saga and FE 7 used his notes as the basis of their plot. This was repeated again with Berwick Saga too. I took this from the FE wiki but I vouch for it's authenticity.

The setting of Berwick Saga shares striking similarities to the Tellius Series of Fire Emblem, leading many fans to believe that they drew from the same set of notes written by Shouzou Kaga during his time at Intelligent Systems. A non-exhaustive list of parallels include:

• A powerful black-clad enemy knight: the Black Knight and Chaos
  • A pair of divine swords, wielded by a player unit and their nemesis (the black-clad knight): Ragnell & Alondite by Ike and the Black Knight, Vritra & Vajra by Faye and Chaos
  • The black-clad knight's protective blessing can only be neutralized by the other sword: Black Knight by Ragnell, Chaos by Vritra
  • The black-clad knight was a former student of their nemesis's father: Black Knight to Greil, Chaos to Cowen
• Two warring deities, one "holy" and one "dark": Ashera & Yune, Veria & Raze
  • The two gods were once the same being: Ashunera and Lazberia
• The office of the Apostle, who can hear the Goddess's voice
  • The assassination of the previous Apostle by her own country's leader(s): Misaha and Silpha
  • An Apostle who cannot hear the voice of the Goddess: Sanaki and Silpha
  • The name of the current Apostle: Sanaki (サナキ Sanaki) and Sanacia (サナーキア Sanākia)
• The destruction of the previous world order by a great flood: caused by Ashunera in Tellius, caused by an earthquake in Lazberia

...Oh my goodness! I am surprised that Berwick Saga didn't get a lawsuit.

Which one came first, though?

Doing some research on Wikipedia, both games were released on 2005. But Path Of Radiance came on April while Berwick Saga came out on May.

So Path Of Radiance came first in terms of release.

If anything, Kaga is the one who should have been like "Yo what the fuck dude? Why you steal my stuff?"

Edited by erazor0707 on Jan 5th 2019 at 7:40:51 AM

If they were that close I speculate either one was spying on the other or simply sheer coincidence.

It's not coincidence or spying. Kaga is known to write down lots of plot notes and ideas. It's extremely likely that both him and IS used these notes. It's also safe to attribute said notes to Kaga because he's the lead writer for all the games before he left.

dood: It did. Nintendo sued Tirnanog for copyright infringement due to the Tear Ring games being so similar to Fire Emblem, but the court ruled that as long as Tirnanog didn't use the word Emblem in the title, it was OK. As Ranger says, Kaga wrote down extensive notes, and the developers of the post-Kaga games evidently had copies to work from. After all, Kaga certainly knew what he was doing, so there's no reason to ignore his ideas.

Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light, chapter 5: Champions of Aurelis.

I only get to bring nine units to this battle, so in with the old faithfuls Marth, Shiida, Cain, Abel, Gordin, Castor, and Lena. Joining them are Merric for magic, Ogma, and Nabarl. Ogma outclasses Nabarl in every way, and appears to have better growths, but Nabarl is still a good unit for now. Also, there are a bunch of Knights on this map and Nabarl happens to be holding the Armourslayer.

As soon as the level starts, there is a conversation between Hardin, king of Aurelia, and Nyna, princess of Akaneia. Wow, with the royals out fighting, Aurelis is really bringing out the big bows in the war against Medon. Anyway, Hardin tells Nyna that the Alteans have arrived, and with their aid they should be able to push back the invaders; however, it would still be best if Nyna waited in the castle.

The map consists of three islands, seperated by rivers. My guys begin on the southeast island, and there is a small force on the northeast island vulnerable to Marth's rapier and Abel's Beast Killer; there's also a Bishop named Wendell, who I gather is recruitable.

The larger enemy force resides on the western island, surrounding two castles. South of a mountain range, I get five new units - Hardin, a level 6 Cavalier, and his loyal knights, Cavaliers Vyland and Roshea, and Horsemen Wolf and Sedgar. This game is so far really generous with new units; I guess they figured people would play properly and suffer quite a few deaths, so characters needed to be replaced.

I begin by sending Marth's forces north to attack the smaller force, and Hardin's forces to block the mountain passes. In the north, Marth softens up the enemy Cavaliers for the rest to take out, and then Wendell walks up to Marth to initiate the conversation. Wendell tells me that he comes from Khadein, the land of magic, which has recently been conquered by Gharnef and their mages forced to fight for Doluna; Wendell begs me to save them, and gives his aid. A homeowner suggests I visit the port town of Warren to pick up some rare items, and another tells me the castle is full of treasures that only Thieves can access.

In the west, Hardin and Sedgar are ignored while Wolf and Roshea make a brave defence of the forest pass. Next turn, Hardin and Sedgar move slightly north to draw out the enemy's Pegasus Knight and a Cavalier, while Abel and Shiida defend against Thieves on Bridges and Marth visits a village, where the villager tells me about the Manaketes of Perathi and gives me a Fire Stone.

The armies now begin to converge. The RNG happens to skew in my favour at the pass Roshea is defending, and I manage to quickly clean up the last of the Medon forces. Merric makes short work of the boss and the Knight standing next ot him, and then I send all my sword users to by stell swords at the Armoury. Finally, Marth grabs the castle; the castellan thanks me and tells me that Nyna will arrive soon. In the meantime, Medon forces are still inside the castle, so could I please go in and flush them out?

New units: Hardin, Vyland, Wolf, Roshea, Sedgar, Wendell Levelups: None.

I know that Tear Ring Saga got a lawsuit, I was reffering specifically at Berwick Saga at being the one that didn't get one.

Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light, chapter 6: Fire Emblem

Well well well, out first indoor map. This one is full of treasure chests, so I'll be needing Julian. Joining him and Marth are my supertrio of Shiida, Cain, and Abel, plus Lena for staves. There are quite a lot of physical enemies that need to be guarded against, so I bring along Draug to act as a stone wall, and Nabarl, Barst, and Merric to deal with the numerous Knights around the map. They are rounded out by Hardin, Wolf, and Roshea for movement, and Ogma for badassery.

As soon as the map begins, the boss displays some NPC agency by ordering his troops to attack mine and the Thieves to raid the chests and escape. Ahh, I see this old standby was present from the beginning. Best hurry to defend the chests before the Medonites get to them.

Right near the start is an area blocked by a locked door, with a Thief named Rickard behind it. I begin my first turn by sending Julian to unlock the door, then I have Lena warp Draug to the far west to stand on a treasure chest and defend it from Thieves and Knights. The rest of my troops advance.

On turn 2, Lena warps Cain, who is swiftly becoming my best unit, up to the northeast to stand on another chest and protect it from attack. Fortunately, this is one of those maps where enemy units will only attack characters who are within their range, so Cain is relatively safe with his javelin.

Meanwhile, Julian speaks to Rickard, and it's pretty cool that even back before support conversations were introduced there was a real effort made to give character and backstory to individual units. Rickard is a friend of Julian's who tried to rob the castle, but got captured. When he asks what Julian is doing there, Julian tells him that he's given up on thievery and now fights for justice; Rickard isn't fooled for a moment, and deduces Julian is doing all this for a girl. Whatever, Julian strongarms Rickard into joining the resistance, and now I have another Thief.

My main force advances, Wolf acquitting himself well against an enemy Archer on the other side of a wall and Hardin taking out a Knight. Draug and Cain heroically hold their positions, while Abel and Shiida team up to stop the Thieves from reaching the nearby chests while Nabarl and Ogma take out the northern troops. Lena warps Barst over to Draug, where they jointly defeat a Knight, and Marth and Merric take down the other Knight.

Now it's the home stretch. Julian and Rickard raid the remaining chests, while Lena heals people up and my army advances down to the southern room where the boss waits, supported by two Archers, a Mage, and a Cleric. Abel and Draug lure out the Archers with their trusty javelins, and Shiida takes down the Mage. For the final advance, Merric and Barst kill the boss handily, gaining a lockpick which goes to Ricakrd. The Cleric is possessed of an unholy dodging ability, and Abel and Shiida waste several turns trying to stab him.

With the battle winding down, I buy javelins for every lance user who doesn't currently have one, and finally Marth seizes the throne. Princess Nyna, who I guess was being held captive here, thanks Marth for freeing her and gives him the Fire Emblem. Huh. That was surprising. I figured that, with it being in the title, there would be some sort of buildup, or at least it would have been mentioned before, but no, a random princess hands it to me about 20% of the way into the game.

OK, I'm being a little unfair. Nyna gives me some more backstory, about how the Fire Emblem is the holy treasure of Akaneia, given to the one who will save the world. Traditionally, Akaneia has led the nations in keeping down the Darkness, but now it has fallen to Doluna, which is why Nyna entrusts the Emblem to Marth and charges him with saving the world. Oh, and it allows Marth to open treasure chests. This is also the first mention of Medeus, who Marth states it is his duty to defeat.

With Aurelis liberated, it's time to take the fight to Akaneia.

Takings: 10,000 G, Armourslayer, Killing Edge, Seraph Robe, Physic

New units: Rickard

Levelups: Marth, Shiida, Cain, Abel, Draug, Barst, Merric, Nabarl.

Edited by VampireBuddha on Jan 6th 2019 at 3:26:07 PM

The most epic item in the game is used to simply open treasure chests. How is that possible with just a shield is beyond me.

What sucks about the original is that its a 4 item inventory, based on what I saw from MK 404's playthrough of it. And since Marth has the Fire Emblem on lock, he's limited with the weapons he could hold. But considering the endgame, it wouldn't matter but still. Considering the way convoy works on that game, it could be annoying.

BTW, did any thieves reach the chests? IIRC, if they reach it, it's completely gone rather than being able to take it upon killing them like the other games.

Edited by mariovsonic999 on Jan 6th 2019 at 9:15:50 AM