The Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

Probably because there's no reason "home of demons and monsters" has to be the same place as "abode of the suffering and damned." Also, isn't Gensokyo a place where all myths are true? Do you suppose Shiki could send people to Dante's hell if she were sufficiently pissed?

Actually some really interesting stuff about Buddhist hell realms.

"Why does Japan need so many hells?"

Simple. Hell is a place with lots of immigration and no emigration. By definition if it is not infinitely large it will become full. Given how Touhou embraces Celestial Bureaucracy you can pretty much rule out "infinitely large" as a possibility, so they're forced to keep opening new hells to meet the demand.

Your funny quote here! (Maybe)

Yeah. I don't think the Hell Mima is encountered in is even the same Hell seen in Subterranean Animism. It's implied that the Hell Of Blazing Fires has been out of commission for some time. Mima was most likely in one of the active Hells.

Which makes sense; why would Reimu go to a defunct Hell to look for scapegoats?

You know, it's funny. In SA, and then UFO, we went back to the two settings of the first game, except they weren't the same ones. First, we go to an old, defunct Hell, and then we go to the one section of Makai that Highly Responsive to Prayers and Mystic Square could not have taken place in.

I have a message from another time...

Hokkai is described as "a small part of Makai", located at the far edge. I know nothing about Japanese and basically got this from Wiktionary, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but where Makai (魔界) means a demonic world, Hokkai (法界) seems to mean one of law. 法 is also associated with Dharma in Buddhism and 法界 becomes Dharmadhatu, as well, which I'm guessing was no coincidence.

Holy Rise 2 was on my mind when writing this, but when taking all of the above into account, especially the possible link to Buddhism, then maybe Hokkai was created for Byakuren alone.

No idea where Shinki would come in since everything in Makai is described as her creation, but maybe Hokkai was inherited by being on the same land or relative space where Makai is established or is more of a enclave or neighboring land or realm, where travel through Makai is required to get there. A part of Makai, but not.

But this is about Mima. As with many of the PC-98 characters, I don't have much to say. I've never been a fan of the Mima = Marisa's mom thing, for one. It's somewhat supported by Dolls in Pseudo Paradise, though.

I thought the same thing. This is reinforced by Touhou Wiki, which says Jigoku and the Hell of Blazing Fires is the same thing, but no telling if they're right. However, it's not like Old/Former Hell/Hell of Blazing Fires is deserted. Along with all the dangerous youkai hidden away down there, according to Wa HH, there were also plenty of spirits of the worst sort who remained. Mima could've been either when Reimu first meets her.

What bugs me about the Dolls in Pseudo Paradise thing is that hardly anyone ever tries to relate most of the other little blurbs from that to the main Touhou canon. Some of them are relatively simple to get some sense out of, but there are others that really don't seem to have anything to do with anything. (It's even worse if you follow the logic that the text for Reincarnation must be about Mima because that's her theme; that means the other tracks that are from games must be about their characters too, right?) It's a little silly to give one snippet much weight while ignoring the rest of its source.

But I did once challenge a friend to interpret the whole thing and they made it about halfway through, Circus Reverie being the sticking point. I'm sure someone can manage it.

(ETA: Also, if you look at that blurb ignoring any context of Mima, it seems to me at least to be strongly implying that the new girl isn't actually the previous woman's daughter, but herself reborn in a younger form; it's just that nobody knew anything about her or saw her much to begin with so the speaker is assuming the mundane. Which would fit both the title of the song and the general cryptic-supernatural-creepy vibe of the whole album's text.)

edited 15th Nov '10 11:17:16 AM by Caprice

"Dolls in Pseudo Paradise"? *looks it up* Hmmm.

Man, I was going to move on today, but when we keep getting new people discussing stuff, it seems kinda rude to interrupt.

So, get your discussion on while you can, it's go time tomorrow!

On Hokkai, I'm pretty sure that Shinki made that as well. The humans who sealed Byakuren just happened to seal off Hokkai to do so.

As for the name's relation to Dharma, well that jsut makes sense. After all, "The light of Dharma [is] even stronger here in Makai".

I have a message from another time...

You just have to find a way to make a segue, like "Speaking of multiple hells..." or "Speaking of Highly Responsive to Prayers..." or "Speaking of Jigoku..." or "Speaking of PC-98 characters..." or "Speaking of Shinki...".

There have been so many great opportunities on this page alone!

edited 15th Nov '10 4:03:53 PM by SuperDimensionman

And now I have the mental picture of Gensokyo as the figurative tip of an iceberg of hells. Though I guess it'd actually have an hourglass shape, since it'd logically be connected to all mythologies' heavens as well... Geez, that's some funky cosmology. So Gensokyo's the nexus between the aferlives? I'm surprised there aren't fiendish hordes battling angelic hosts on the Hakurei Shrine's front lawn every other day.

Clearly all supernatural beings, from devas and archons to demons and archdevils, know not to annoy Reimu.

I don't like to think of ZUN as someone who'd troll his fanbase, but when you put it like that...

I'm gonna give an isolated clump of text a non-objective interpretation to support my preconceived conclusion and you are going to like it!

But yeah, Dolls in Pseudo Paradise... the C62 version has a narrative about thieves, I think, but the other stuff is pretty baffling. A doll with "real" eyes that crows keep eating? A birdman in a circus? Speculation about soil quality? I think people are latching onto the bit accompanying "Reincarnation" because it's one of the few that's straightforward and comprehensible.

That, and to support the whole Mima-momma fanon.

Speaking of Mima.

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Speaking of YuugenMagan...

I have a message from another time...

Speaking of speaking...

Your funny quote here! (Maybe)

Speaking of Mima, Marisa and Motherliness, I got an alternate interpretation of my alternate interpretation of Marisa in a review of my fanfiction.

I thought that I was writing Marisa as being really cold and pragmatic, beating up on the cute little youkai so that they'd respect her when they're stronger, but a reader interpreted their interactions as her being motherly and looking out for them. I guess I might know where she'd pick that style of parenting up...

The Big PC-98 Showdown!!
Round 1


Shinki

Appearance/voice:

Theme:
End of the World ~ World's End, Legendary Illusion ~ Infinite Being

Relationships:

• Yumeko (sword-throwing maid)
• Alice (?!)

Write-up:
Shinki is many things. For one thing, she is clearly the most popular PC-98 character to not appear in a Windows game, right after Mima.

She is also the creator of Makai, a place comparable to hell. She lives in a place called "Pandaemonium", and sports six wings. Yeah, she's pretty much Satan. Surprisingly friendly, however!

Speaking of mothers, however – the PC-98 version of Alice is one of the citizens of Makai, and based on Shinki's comments claiming that she created Makai and everything in it, rumors have started to spread... And just what is the deal with devils and blade-throwing maids anyway?

Regardless of vampiric parallels, Shinki's portrayal as a loving mother to young Alice is an image that has ingrained itself in many a fan's heart. And with Makai making a reappearance in Undefined Fantastic Object and Byakuren sporting a spellcard much like one of hers, her character seems to be closer to returning to canonicity than ever.

---

Elly

Appearance/voice:

Theme:
BAD Apple!!, Spirit Battle ~ Perdition Crisis

Relationships:

• Yuuka (her mistress)

Write-up:
Elly is one of many less than effective gatekeepers of Touhou lore. There are, however, several factors that make her noteworthy.

For one thing, she has a pretty sweet scythe.

More importantly, she's the gatekeeper of Pre-98 Yuuka's residence, a character who did manage the jump to the new series. While Yuuka may have changed in many ways, many fans will gladly accept Elly and her sweet scythe and hat into the realms of new fanon.

The most important factor, however, is one you probably already noticed: Bad Apple!! Indeed, hers is the stage theme that was remixed into one of the major hallmarks of Touhou fandom.

And her hair is pretty sweet, too.

---

Rika

Appearance/voice:

Themes:
Hakurei ~ Eastern Wind, She's in a temper!!, Extra Love, The Tank Girl's Dream

Relationships:

• Reimu (beaten by repeatedly)

Write-up:
Rika is a bit of a strange case for this list, as she is not particularly popular. Aside from wearing pants, however, there's a few things of interest about her:

For one thing, she's one of the few scientifically-minded individuals in Gensokyo, barring the kappa and their fascination with outside world tech. Her scientific genius is such that she didn't only manage to build several highly potent battle tanks, but also somehow to create monsters and ghosts. One can only assume she did it for the science of it all.

The other thing is as simple as it is insidious: She is the first boss in a Touhou shooting game – that is to say, the first boss in a game not Highly Responsive to Prayers. She is the only boss to ever fight inside an armed vehicle rather than doing the fighting by herself. And most of all, she returns with a vengence as the first Ex-Boss of the series with her "Evil Eye Sigma" tank – which is widely considered the hardest Ex-Boss of the entire series as well.

For science, girl. For science.

---

Genji

Appearance/voice:

Themes:
?

Relationships:

• Reimu (his owner)

Write-up:
Genji, the loyal steed. As Reimu was yet unable to fly on her own in the PC-98 games, an excuse to let her do so was needed, and Genji was just the right turtle for the job. With a snazzy old beard and many years of wisdom having hardened his halfshell, Genji stands proudly as the third-manliest character in this lineup!

After ubiquitous flight abilities rendered him obsolete, Genji unceremoniously retired and is probably spending his life peacefully in a lake behind the Hakurei shrine. He has not yet retired from the heart of the fanon however, where he still has a warm place to return to for being one of the few male characters, as well as a goshdarn talking flying turtle with a goaty.

---

Round 1! For this one, I picked out the few characters that I considered particularly noteworthy in the crowd of people I barely know anything about. I guess the entire cast of Phantasmagoria of Dim.Dream might be noteworthy for being playable characters, but let's not overdo things for now.

Things will speed up now! Posting stuff for all these characters at the same time would take too long and would really stretch out the page, so I'm gonna divide the following posts by game, adding a short description of the plot of the game in question for good measure.

I won't post another one yet today, but I'll crank it up tomorrow (which is a holiday for me). If a new post comes up, don't think that the previous characters are off-limits now. It's still mainly a free-for-all, the divided posts are mainly for other purposes.

So, FIGHT!

DAMMIT I forgot to make a post before that one saying "speaking of forced segues..."

I actually didn't think of it as cold, either. Pragmatic, yeah, but in a very sympathetic way.

Love! I'm happy to see that the mental image I got about Mima and Marisa's relationship from that earlier picture by the same artist was pretty much spot-on. Barring coincidence, that either means that I had some good intuition, or that the artist was really good at conveying that relationship, and I'm fine with either option.

Rika was able to create ghosts and monsters? Wow, science really is indistinguishable from magic in Gensokyo.

I kinda like Shinki's personality. The ruler of Makai and practically a god, but very dignified and patient when confronted. I think the protagonists actually would've stood a good chance of convincing her to stop the demon invasion without a fight. If, you know, this wasn't a shoot 'em up.

edited 16th Nov '10 2:55:05 PM by Fluid

I always feel really uncomfortable around Shinki, due to all the Satan parallels. It's the primary reason why I tend to ignore Pre-Windows Touhou.

I make video games! Or plan to, anyway.

And you're OK with the crow and ghost cat who eat sinners?

I have a message from another time...

Let's see:

• Shinki:
  • Canon: God of Makai. Seems like a decent person, takes a hands off approach to management.
  • Fanon: Doting mother to Alice. Because Alice is the only reason anyone cares about her.
• Elly: I've no idea. The two fanworks I've seen her in both had her as a masochist with an obsessively loyalty to Yuuka, though.
• Rika: No idea. Probably worth noting that she's never said to be solely using science, though.
• Genjii: A turtle. That flies. Seemed like a decent guy in the one game that he had a voice.

Yes. Yes I am. It's not the concept that bothers me, so much as the name. Every time I see Shinki, that name pops up in the back of my head, and it makes my skin crawl all over.

I make video games! Or plan to, anyway.

I think that Rika could be a lot of fun in modern Gensokyo. Nothing like a phalanx of battletanks and a swarm of genetically engineered super-monsters to keep Reimu on her toes! Actually... would danmaku tanks even work? They'd be kind of like Alice's dolls but a lot more durable, right?

Rika needs to come back for one simple reason.

Her Evil Eye Sigma versus the Hisoutensoku with Sanae riding.

Edit: Pictures.

edited 16th Nov '10 7:27:32 PM by Bocaj

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What's wrong with Shinki's name?

^The Hisoutensoku is a fancy balloon. Not the most interesting of matchups.

edited 16th Nov '10 7:27:15 PM by Hylarn

Technically, its a wacky, waving, inflatable arm flaying tube man. For now. But with potential cold fusion on the way, the kappa can rebuild it into an actual giant robot. For Science!!

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^ There's something about those sentences that made me think "oh god i know exactly what s/he means. I'm such a nerd."

Unbeknownst to most, the world is completely controlled by a single pipe smoking rabbit.