Young Justice

Yeah, Season 3 is way too trendy. I also agree about Wally. A lot of his excessive flirting is very uncomfortable, but his treatment of Artemis somehow bothers me more.

Season 2, however, is perfect.

Beyond social media, s3 also had Luthor's Trumpisms and to a degree the Quaraci refugee crisis mirroring the Syrian refugee crisis. This is going to seem like a very dated season in 5-10 years.

Problems and discrimination against refugees (especially Middle Eastern ones) have been prevalent before and will continue to be afterwards. It helps that they also used fictionalized nations, so I think that might age fine.

Luthor's Trumpisms do baffle me, though. They're completely OOC with how eloquent he usually is. They also happen to use them the same season that he actually displays some genuine personality flaws and his plans don't go 100% right, which in combination makes him come off as dumbed down from the first couple of seasons.

May have to disagree with your point on Luthor’s whole Trumpism characterization; especially in regards to the fact that was basically his whole characterization during the modern interpretstion of the character when he went from psychotic criminal scientist to egomaniac corrupt business man. Doesn’t help that the Man of Steel comic, which introduce that interpretation, takes a lot of inspiration from Trump himself.

Honestly this is one of those things that will stay relevant like Richard Nixon

Yeah, agreed on both points. Not only is connecting Modern Luthor to Trump pretty apt (it's kind of freaky how prophetic the "President Luthor" arc was, tbh), but I have to raise an eyebrow at the idea that everyone would forget about Trump to the point of references to him becoming dated in "five or ten years."

Tbh, I'm fully expecting "Trump-pastiche" to become a popular character type in the years to come, and his manner of speech and quotes to stick around the public consciousness the same way Nixon's or FDR's did.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 13th 2021 at 10:48:35 AM

Agreed.

Though despite not reading much of President Luthor, I'm totally willing to go to bat for him being a better President than Trump, simply because when he's not letting his Superman sized blind spot cloud his judgement, he's much subtler than Trump.

Like, Luthor is malicious, but not in the stupid way Trump is.

I think the intelligence is why people don't like associating characters like Luthor to Trump. It may be a bit harsh, but I think people don't like the idea that in order to do what Luthor & Co did in the stories, one doesn't need to be super-smart and a master manipulator, one can just be a loud buffoon flying by the seat of his pants.

Edited by Sannom on Feb 13th 2021 at 10:23:44 AM

Oh, believe me, I can totally believe Trump could, and did, get away with what he did in the real world. I also don't care that Trump was partly an inspiration to Byrne's Luthor. And I completely understand that Trumpisms will be relevant in the future, just as they were relevant to the past before he even ran for office.

My issue is that Trumpisms don't fit THIS specific version of Luthor at all. They make him come off as buffoonish and simplistic in a way that he wasn't in the previous seasons. YJ Luthor is closer to Jeff Bezos.

Pretty much why I feel it will not age the best- Luthor's Trumpisms already don't work the best. Though I do get the feeling the idea was that Luthor puts on a Trump-like populist face while is an eloquent mastermind in private.

Social media will definitely age the worst though

I feel like Lex's Trumpisms are rather overstated. Aside from him saying "Fake news" and being a corrupt politician, he isn't that much like Trump.

@Gamer Sly Ratchet: "YJ Luthor is closer to Jeff Bezos."? I'd argue that the real-life Jeff Bezos is a rip-off of Lex Luthor.

https://mobile.twitter.com/YJWiki/status/1366177779180568576

Khary Payton is apparently more involved in season 4. Maybe he's voicing more characters? Maybe he's writing some episodes?

Edited by jessicadicicco610 on Mar 1st 2021 at 12:54:42 PM

OG Teen Titans Cyborg turning up to mentor new Cyborg and help him come to terms?

A man can dream...

I didn’t mind the trumpisms. When you get down to it that’s what fascists are actually like.

When Obama came in his staff was expecting everything to be like the west wing where the republicans disagreed but were principled about it. As such they were totally blindsided when they were actually nakedly corrupt and venal.

Much as I like the show (they managed to adopt Arsenal in a way that wasn’t stupid or offensive) there’s one thing a lot of Weisman’s fans don’t get and it’s that most “higher purpose” villains are either a.) lying and really just egomaniacal Jackasses or b.) think they have a higher purpose but would let the world burn if society refuses to let them wield the power.

The awesome skewers this by having the villain say “yeah you really shouldn’t believe those who claim they’re operating fit a higher purpose. They are on average higher assholes.”

I don't mind the villains thinking they have a higher purpose and actually being scum. I just don't feel that Trumpisms suit Luthor's MO that well comparatively. I got the impression in s1 and s2 that Luthor was trying to set himself up as the voice of reason, even if that was just a seductive lie. Trump is more 'only people who don't believe me are my enemies'.

Baron De Lamb probably would have been better suited to Trumpisms tbh

This archetype of Riffing on Trump already exists. Trumplica.

Luthor is an example of the guy who THINK's he's higher but really is only in it for himself.

This might be personal but an acquaintance of mine MET Greg Weisman back the mid 2000s. She worked at an anime convention (and was one of the people who testified about Vic Mignogna being a sexual predator). Weisman was at the convention and clearly didn't want to be there so when there were some minor technical problems that needed resolving he went off on her in a way that was rather rude and abusive.

When my acquaintance brought the incident up on twitter one of Weisman's fans (Crzydemona) tried to downplay it by saying "I've interacted with him at conventions and he was perfectly nice", "oh he was under stress, he wasn't angry at you" or saying "you're attacking someone who can't defend himself."

While many of Weisman's fans haven't been THAT obnoxious they tend to get rabid when anyone raises even a peep of criticism about his works. As such I have a.....harsh opinion of his fanbase. Many come off as either snobs or unwilling to brook any criticism of Weisman.

Edited by LordYAM on Mar 2nd 2021 at 7:08:32 AM

Yes, that's what I said about Luthor. He's usually depicted as only being in it for himself, but trying to present himself as caring for the greater good. I just don't think that fits making him into more of a Trumplica, especially since it swerved a bit from his s1 and s2 characterization.

Baron Bedlam, with his anti-immigrant statements and 'Make Markovia strong' attitude, probably would have been a better fit for that sort of thing if they really felt the need to include it.

Then again, perhaps I'm just burned out on Trumplicas in media.

We kinda need to have them though. Trump's legacy will take a while to expunge and people MUST be reminded of what a piece of garbage he is.

You keep making this argument and honestly speaking, it comes across as you projecting your fear of a possible Misaimed Fandom onto the writers and other fans.

The truth of it is that the Light have not been subject to Draco in Leather Pants and the show has been taking great pains to show the folly and hypocrisy of their actions such as kidnapping, maiming and cloning Roy Harper and the metahuman trafficking ring they were running. The similarities between Luthor and Trump aren't even very pronounced.

It's the same thing with people claiming Infinity War was on Thanos's side or that the Joker movie would inspire an incel murder spree. A fear founded in nothing.

Yeah, people need to be reminded why Trump sucks. But I think that documentation of the camps and the photos of the insurrection will do a lot more for that than making YJ Luthor quote Trump.

Maybe. It doesn't help that many of his fans are quite frankly intolerant of ANY criticism whatsoever (an acquaintance of mine described how Weisman was rude and abusive to her at a convention. One of his high profile supporters tried to play down the incident, and while his other fans haven't been AS bad they still get prickly at even slight criticisms in the story.)

I have seen at least one person unironically defend the Light and as mentioned a lot of people really don't get that most villains don't even have a higher purpose even if they like to think they do.

I'm sorry that happened to your friend.

Thanks.

The acquaintance clarified that it wasn't sexual harassment, but it was still unpleasant for her to endure (it was an anime convention and she was a staff member; Weisman clearly didn't want to be there and thought it was beneath him, so when his panel was held up by technical problems he unloaded on her) and it soured her opinion on him.

In general a lot of Weisman fans seem to get defensive if people perceive plot holes or errors in his series and that created the impression (to me) that a lot of them are obnoxious snobs.

Alan Moore fans can be somewhat similar. The guy's talented and he WAS screwed. Thing is he was entirely willing to do the same thing to others WHEN IT SUITED HIM (Peter Pan was owned by a children's hospital until 2008; they made it clear in no uncertain terms that they did NOT approve of how Alan Moore used the characters in Lost Girls. Alan Moore first tried to argue "oh they don't REALLY own the copyright therefore I should be allowed to do what I want.") In short he tried to argue that the other party didn't own the copyright because it would be more convenient for him, and while he did ultimately wait it came off more as "I don't want to get my ass handed to me in court so I'll wait a few years."

And yet I have seen Alan Moore fans argue that it wasn't that big a deal (or in the case of one fan when I explained why I felt Alan Moore's actions were slimy he said "that doesn't sound like the guy I met.") It's the same attitude. An artist may have a lot of talent and even understandable reasons for why they might be a jerk (Weisman gets incessantly asked the same questions over and over again) but their fans use those to argue that the creator should be ALLOWED to be a jerk.

Season 3 Luthor seemed more in line with most depictions of Luthor though.