It's a Gundam thread!

That's basically my opinion on it too.

A bunch of stuff happens, but it all seems to not really flow together or mean anything.

That said, I haven't seen the film adaptations.

So lore question, is it true that Zeon had independence even before the war?

At least in the Origin continuity, Garma's attack on a Federation base in Zeon territory was a major factor in setting off the One Year War.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 27th 2023 at 12:27:35 AM

G-Reco was pretty and had some interesting worldbuilding, but the script sucked. And then I'm pretty certain the back half was edited down from something two or three times it's original size

G-Reco doesn't even have any non-HG kit iirc. Even the also-forgotten Gundam X got a couple MG.

This is one of the things that's not really settled. MSG's opening narration says that Side 3 "proclaimed itself the Principality of Zeon and launched a war of independence against the Earth Federation" at the beginning of the One Year War. But production materials both before and after the airing of the show have Side 3 declaring independence under Zeon Zum Deikun in the 0050s, and the Zabis seizing control of Side 3 as the Principality of Zeon in the 0060s. However, that doesn't really stop later entries in the UC timeline from treating Zeon like an independence movement.

So there's really no definitive answer.

Even when Deikun did declare independence for Side 3 in Origin, there was still a hefty Federation military presence there.

IGLOO was the first animated work to mention Zeon getting it's independence (as the Republic of Zeon) in UC 0058 (the EF launched sanctions a year later) with the Republic becoming the Principality in UC 0069 (for better or for worse).

Edited by HallowHawk on May 27th 2023 at 1:57:50 AM

Yeah that part was why I was confused about the whole independence thing. That said, it's entirely possible to have independence but still have military bases on your sovereign territory by former rulers.

Former American colonies like the Philippines have them. But the framing of the issue in Origin with Garma's invasion of the military base makes it sound like a big movement for independence and to get the Federation out of their territory.

Edited by RedHunter543 on May 27th 2023 at 8:16:51 PM

What was the problem with the 00 movie exactly?

The idea of aliens in a Gundam story for starters.

There are people who somehow think aliens can’t work in a Gundam story, meanwhile the aliens of Gundam 00 fit into the themes of its story and aren’t just humans you can talk to. They’re completely alien in appearance and how they interact with the world.

The fact a movie was what handled a plot intended for the show due to Executive Meddling is something that hampered the movie though.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 27th 2023 at 2:24:26 AM

The 00 movie has a plot that makes no sense and action that consists almost entirely of boring beamspam, and ends on a Space Whale Aesop that goes against basically every other Gundam ever made.

tldr: Starfish Aliens in the form of shapeshifting metal blobs show up on Earth. They start assimilating stuff, because that's how they learn about things. This includes people, though they apparently fail to learn that people don't like to be assimilated. Humanity naturally fights back, but the metal blobs just turn into mobile suits and retaliate. This goes on until Setsuna uses his quantum psychic powers and his quantum psychic Gundam establish communications with the aliens, who immediately stop killing people as a result. The movie ends on a shot of Setsuna's psychic quantum Gundam abandoned and covered in wildflowers, while the text "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." appearing on-screen, just in case you're too dense to get the message yet.

Violence is bad! Nevermind the fact that the aliens literally show up out of nowhere and start killing people, leaving violence as the only way to protect themselves. Or the fact that if a united humanity hadn't fought back against the aliens in order to give Setsuna time to do quantum magic, we would have all died. Or that basically everything else in Gundam, including the 00 TV series, points out that violence sucks but it's better than letting fascists rule the world (and inflict all kinds of violence on all kinds of people, indefinitely). The 00 movie insists that violence is bad and only understanding solves anything, even while demonstrating the necessity of violence for survival when faced with a threat that cannot or will not communicate with you. Because weird alien shapeshifter guys are better at violence than us and will kill us for using violence on them. And also completely without provocation too, actually.

It's just a complete mess all around.

FictionAddiction and me have an actual accurate description of what Gundam 00 was going for back in 2018, so ignore the post above that just wants to hate on it.

Oh so that's the plot of the movie

Yeah that does sound pretty dumb

Every long running series has it's stinkers.

Ah yes, because criticism of a thing you like can only be in bad faith.

Though if we're doing that, I actually like my post on the subject from the page you linked better than the one I just made. So I might as well quote it here:

Edited by NativeJovian on May 27th 2023 at 6:22:01 AM

@Red Hunter: The only real stinkers of Gundam is Gundam Age. THAT was actually bad and incoherent ESPECIALLY the villains Ezelcants motivation.

As someone who has seen other Level 5 works it’s also completely in line with how nonsensical the writing can get in some of their games/shows like Inazuma Eleven Go Chrono Stone.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 27th 2023 at 3:26:57 AM

Oh wow.

Age is the worst Gundam show ever I hear

And like it’s saying something cause Inzauam Eleven loves it’s cheese/absurdity considering before that point it had magic water that makes one superhuman, meteors that make one superhuman, and actual Stands as a real thing in the Go seasons.

And it STILL manages to do that in the worse ways in the later half of Chrono Stone

The second generation is the best part about it. It’s where it introduces the Char of the show and a big part of his and Asemus relationship is where the show actually shined as it’s one saving Grace. Well that and dragon mechas.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 27th 2023 at 3:32:14 AM

Is there any Char clone who doesn't elevate the show they are in?

I think Full Frontal was pretty mid

McGillis Fareed in Iron-Blood Orphans comes to mind.

But it is funny watching everything he worked for fall apart due to being a manchild trying to live out his fantasies so he won’t ever be abused again.

Full Frontal as well since he’s literally Diet Char

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 27th 2023 at 3:34:47 AM

It's weird, but I kinda saw McGillis as one of my favourite characters in the show, even if his plan was ultimately flawed and clearly based on something that to say is unhealthy would be an understatement.

Having said that, a big chunk of Season 2's plotline does hinge on the fact that he really should've double-checked a few things. And that's just one of the problems with the second season.

Meanwhile, Frontal is like a weird inversion of Char. Char was messed up as a person, but there was something in Zeta about how he wanted to leave his past as Casval behind... only for him to fall into a massively cynical drive to make one last "fuck you" to everyone. Frontal, on the other hand, was kinda humble, I guess, and genuinely believed in the cause for Zeon resurgents.

Edited by G2BattleConvoy on May 27th 2023 at 12:06:14 PM

The "Char Clone" trope as Gundam uses it is essentially The Heavy and therefore rather critical a role to a Space Opera War Story, without one you essentially don't have a story so yeah they sure as hell elevate whatever they're in.

Char himself will always be the number 1 probably thanks to Grandfather Clause but I say there are definitely some giving him a run for his money, including newcomer Prospera.