Does this really need examples?: Love It Or Hate It

This must be getting out of hand. I'm seeing things like Superman and Cirque Du Soleil and xkcd, which I'm pretty sure are incorrect, and tea and cats and sex, which are... WTF? Really?

Why do we even have examples here at all, anyway? I'm sure that some of them are legitimately polarizing with vocal Fandoms and Hatedoms, but it seems like the only criteria to list something is that there are a few people who love it and a few people who hate it, which is true of anything.

I think it should be limited to in universe and everything else should be troper tales because as it is, the main page is just turning into troper tales.

Absolutely. I can't believe that hasn't been done already, to be honest. So who wants to start cleaning it up?

No. Just... No , seriously all tropes are somewhat subjective. We can't go removing examples from every single trope someone feels is subjective or opinionated it's getting ridiculously.

Limit to in universe examples.

I second limiting the main page to in universe examples and moving everything else to a Troper Tales page.

Americanbadass, I'm all in favour of keeping subjective tropes like So Bad, It's Good, Nightmare Fuel etc just as they are, but the fact is that this particular trope is the sort of subjective that is just asking for a needless congestion of natter, most of which would seem much more appropriate on Troper Tales. One thing we want to avoid on the main pages at all costs (and which doesn't occur in most other subjective tropes) is fan warring.

The problem with limiting it to "in-universe examples" and moving straight examples to Troper Tales is that this is primarily a Criticism Trope. Just saying... So I don't think that'd work.

A straight example should be pretty widely acclaimed as Love it Or Hate it, in the sense that the majority of critics would agree you either love it or hate it, and the show gets polarizing reactions from the audience.

This trope is basically the inverse of So Okay, It's Average.

A consensus example would be, say, Dancer In The Dark (which led me to this page).

I suggest moving anything that is not pretty consensus to a YMMV page. How's that for a solution?

Examples so moved could be debated in the discussion page if someone feels they are consensus. If it's impossible to decide which examples are clearly YMMV then there'd be no basis for saying the page is getting out of hand, so I think this is workable.

edited 28th Dec '10 10:14:40 PM by berr

The other thing is that looking down the list, it's a very good well written examples list that I'd hate to break up, it's just that you can see the YMMV examples sprinkled in amongst them. That tells me it'd be possible to create a YMMV page with only minor surgery to the current list.

edited 28th Dec '10 10:15:30 PM by berr

What practical method could we possibly use to objectively determine if an example is correct? I can't think of anything.

I say let's do the same thing as Discredited Meme and only include examples that are specifically called out within a work. If there are good examples here, they'll probably be preserved anyway.

edited 29th Dec '10 12:06:26 AM by troacctid

Agree that this should probably be in universe examples only and move the rest to Troper Tales there is no way to say if the show is polar or not really, some people might not meet anyone who likes the series and some debate it to no end its all personal experience.

It's not an in-work trope, it's a trope about critical reception towards the work itself. and most of the examples listed are sound. We could put all the real-life examples on a YMMV page. If it ain't broke don't fix it, I think.

I don't think works cite specific examples of this trope very often. When they do, it's usually an absurd example that doesn't really pertain to real life, i.e. the main character loves a silly movie that his friends hate or vice versa.

The phenomenon is not purely subjective. It's about critical reception. There has to be some basis for objection to example drift on the page, after all.

edited 29th Dec '10 2:05:26 AM by berr

Then cite specific reviews referring to the work as such and there you go. If it's a good example, it should have been mentioned in some sort of media at some point. Like I mentioned, Discredited Meme does this and it's working out fine.

We could move everything to YMMV that doesn't cite reviews or references and let people move examples back if they can justify it by citing reviews or references to the phenomenon?

I always thought Love It or Hate It was basically the same as Your Mileage May Vary in which that "This descriptor applies to literally everything." , so i do agree with moving Real Life examples to Troper Tales.

• Any notable work in existence is loved by someone and hated by another. I doubt that we need a list of all works in existence.

• It has been suggested that we limit it only to "widely acclaimed" examples. But what criteria should we use to distinguish "widely acclaimed" from "personal opinion of some people"? I personally don't know any.

• Thus my suggestion: In-universe examples only.

I don't think it's as universal as YMMV - it does seem to be about a fairly specific critical reaction. Problem is, there's no real way of objectively measuring this reaction, and without that hypothetical filter, it will just become more bogged down with personal opinions.

Supporting moving all but those few obvious examples to YMMV for discussion.

Hell no, it's ok the way it is.

Please elaborate.

Bump. I made a Crowner.

Looks like a consensus. Does it need a quick trip through YKTTW to collect in-work examples?

How many does it have now?

Quick scan:

Anime/Manga

• The anime adaptation of Osamu Tezuka's Metropolis has received praise from some people as a visual masterpiece that also provokes thoughts about society and collects tears during its climax, but other people have described it as underplotted and bland, also complaining about the usage of CGI and the retro character designs.
  • In fact, let Ebert and Roeper's review explain everything.

Film

• Programmers working on the Netflix algorithm to recommend films to customers have cited Napoleon Dynamite in particular as a film which tends to mess up their algorithms because people either love it or hate it, and people with otherwise similar taste in movies often disagree about whether it's great or awful.
• Dancer In The Dark - On The Movie Show, Australia's equivalent of At the Movies with Siskel and Ebert, David Stratton gave this 0 stars whilst Margaret Pomeranz gave it 5. This is the only time this has happened on the show. It was called "artistically bankrupt" by Variety and hailed as a "masterpiece" by other critics. It caused a riot in the theater at Cannes.
• Writer/director Richard Kelly's follow-up [to Donnie Darko] Southland Tales even moreso: most critics labeled it as among the worst movies of the year, but many highly respected critics put it in their Top Ten lists.
• D-War: Popular in its native South Korea, almost universally hated elsewhere, except for a small core of die-hard fans. Its IMDB vote curve is funny to watch, with a big peak at 10/10 and almost every other vote near the bottom.

Food

• Marmite. The manufacturers even use "You Either Love It Or Hate It" as their advertising slogan.
• A study showed that the most common Love It Or Hate It Foods are beets, bell peppers, white chocolate, cilantro, coconut, tomatoes, anise and black licorice, Stinky Cheeses, mayo, and anchovies. [needs source]

Literature

• JK Rowling referred to this trope directly in the documentary about writing the seventh Harry Potter book. "For some to love it, others must loathe it."
  • This comic explains why fairly well.

Music

• Try to mention Nickelback to someone without getting either of the reactions in the trope name.
  • Best summed up by this Cracked article.

That means the Marmite example is the only one applying it to something within the work(the ads). Most of the others fall into the "documentable evidence", but aren't in-work examples.

Troper tales are supposed to be about events that happen to you personally.

I say we make this a fan-speak phrase and call it a day.