A Song Of Ice And Fire

Yeah, the best way to use dragonglass weapons would be by lining regular weapons with them not creating weapons 100% out of obsidian.

About Oberyn, I think he though the poison in his spear finally took Gregor for good and he was done for, what he didn't expect is Gregor being so fucking tough as nails to being able to move like that, which is fair actually.

I wonder, if the final books come out, will the response to the ending be civil and even-tempered.

Depends on how faithful to the ending of the show they are. If they're the same ending, but better set up and better written, probably really civil. If they're way different, it could cause a shitstorm the like of which will never be seen again.

Yeah, Martin has two books left to actually show Dany becoming more ruthless and unhinged, so if she loses Rhaegal and Missandei in the finale of the books then hopefully it will be much more understandable as the final straw in a cavalcade of stress buildup.

I wonder if they will kill Misandai like they do in the show. In the books she is basically a different character. A cute kid Danny depends on to be sure but not the only friend in her life.

I mean, in the books, she has a ton of loyal advisors, like the Shave-pate, Barristan still alive, Strong Belwas, and so forth, but no Tyrion or Jorah just yet, and Brown Ben Plumm betrayed her, so he's not really trustworthy even if he wants to come back. And who knows how Daario Nahares gets played. There's times where I feel like he's loyal, and other times where I feel like he's gonna be the one who betrays for love.

Jorah is something of a wild card even when he is so loyal because is loyalty is somewhat creepy.

Anyway, someone here read fire and blood? what is yoru impresion of it?.

for example for me the hour of the wolf with crag stark is pretty much the first book in reverse: the stark show up out of nowhere when the war is over, take over the boy king, kill the corrupt adviser and peace out, being hand for a day.

it just feel like "what is ned stark wins"

My favorite section was the long reign of Jahaerys I, the one good Targaryen King who was also a really shitty dad.

Edited by lrrose on May 15th 2019 at 3:21:23 PM

I would hardly call the Shavepate loyal. The guy screams sketchy.

I've thought that myself, but he's helping Barristan keep order in Meereen while Dany's gone and has worked against the Sons of the Harpy tirelessly, along with overthrowing Dany's "husband".

The Shavepate comes off more as a Well-Intentioned Extremist loyal to Daenerys. Remember that not only does he take her objections to his suggestions in stride, he doesn't bail on her after she disappears either.

I think the main reason we see him as sketchy is because we see him through the eyes of Daenery and Barristan. Both are foreigners to Slaver's Bay and Daenerys' already paranoid because of all the somewhat vague prophecies people kept bombarding her with over the course of the books.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on May 16th 2019 at 10:47:44 AM

I like the Shavepate. He's the most well-rounded Essosi character amid that sea of orientalist stereotypes Martin peppers Essos with.

I don't expect him to last long in light of that.

I actually expect the Shavepate to win.

In general the Siege of Meereen is nowhere near as desperate as it's being portrayed. Yunkai making the entire thing a huge comedy of errors is allowing the city to be holding with pretty much no trouble, especially since Meereen has Unsullied alongside the Brazen Beasts.

The Ghiscari are essentially a less competent fantasy version of Carthage - mainly focused on trade and heavily reliant on mercenaries.

Except that Carthage had been at war fairly regularly while the slaver cities avoided most conflict after the Valyrians burned their old empire to cinders because most power players in Essos recognise that sacking the places who manage most of the slave trade would be a stupid idea.

And from what we've seen of their "military elite", it's a bunch of incompetent buffoons whose experience is mainly having their slave soldiers pretend-fight. Often not even that, considering how utterly ineffectual some of these troops would be in an actual battle (like the guys on stilts).

Between the higher ups incompetence and the only competent military leaders being mercenaries - most of them not being trustworthy - this whole thing was kinda doomed to fail from the start.

I'd say the Yunkish and their allies only got as far because Daenerys decided to try and appease them. Remember that she's been trying to hard to avoid lookin cruel that she overcompensated in the other direction, something the Ghiscari have been fully willing to exploit.

Depending on how her time away from Meereen goes and whenever she comes back, I don't expect Yunkai and co. to have a good time. Especially since her other dragons broke free and are stil in the city.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on May 17th 2019 at 7:34:16 PM

Yeah, not to mention they very nearly lost at Astapor, the only reason they weren't completely taken by surprise and routed was because New Ghis came in and held them long enough for the sellswords to get their act together. Not to mention the city was in complete anarchy and being ravaged by a plague.

Edited by theLibrarian on May 17th 2019 at 3:52:02 AM

So with the show over, and GRRM claiming that the ending is similar to the one he envisions from the books, I've been thinking about the implications of the prophecies from House of the Undying. Spoilers for the show, of course.

"Three fires must you light: one for life and one for death and one to love… three mounts must you ride: one to bed and one to dread and one to love… three treasons will you know: once for blood and once for gold and once for love"

The fire for life was Dany burning Mirri Maaz Duur to give life to the dragons.

The fire for death will be Dany burning the Others. Probably in a rather spectacular fashion too.

The fire to love will be Dany burning the people of King's Landing for not welcoming her as a liberator.

The general conensus on the mounts is that it refers to her lovers: the mount to bed is Daario, the mount to dread is Drogo, and the mount to love will be Jon.

If it literally refers to steads, then the silver horse is the mount to bed, while Drogon, the second coming of Balerion the Black Dread, is the mount to dread. I have no idea what the third mount would be in that case.

The treason for blood is not Mirri Maaz Duur as Dany believes, as Mirri was never on her side to begin with. Probably the Green Grace, who became the Harpy to avenge the wrongs Dany inflicted on her people.

The treason for gold is Hizdahr, who attempted to poison Dany for a crown.

The treason for love will be Jon Snow, who will kill Dany to protect Sansa.

I just want it to have a lot more build up. Dany's madness was heavily foreshadowed, but we never really saw her start to teeter until suddenly those third- and second-to-last episodes. I hope Martin makes it more drawn-out that she's going off the deep end. My main complaint is that the two halves of Season 8 really should have been full seasons. Instead, they were super-crammed, and it showed.

If Dany ends up like she does in the show, what if the change here is the White Walkers form an Enemy Mine with Jon Snow, rather than being generic doomsday villains like in the show

Yeah, I really thought the point that they can be reasoned with was going to play a huge part. Turns out, not really except for Craster giving them more babies to become White Walkers.

I hope the book does more with it.

King Stark!!! Hail!

I just want Dany to retire. Find that house with the door and forgot all the politics that have ruined her life.

For me, her best ending would be for her to go out in a blaze of fire and blood, presumably fighting against the White Walkers. She would never be a good ruler, her whole thing is that she's ultimately more of a conqueror than a ruler (though the show hammers this further a lot more). Fly away into battle and never come back from it.

Game of Thrones show spoilers:

I think she'll die in a similar fashion to the show, but she'll be facing Aegon VI instead. Which changes things up a bit: the Lannisters are tyrants who rule with fear. No one rebels against them because they're terrified on the Lannisters.

But if Aegon VI takes the throne, Dany will probably come to a Westeros that adores him and doesn't want Dany as queen. They're loyal to Aegon VI, and will see her as a greedy tyrant leading an army of foreigners, slaves, and barbarians. No one, except perhaps the Starks, will be willing to join her, which leads her to try to take the throne with fire and blood.

I do think the order will be the same, however: the Others die first, then Dany goes south.

...And I'm starting to think Aegon VI and his crew will be the ones to defeat Euron. Which why Aegon VI won't go North: they're dealing with their own supernatural nonsense.

Edited by SilentColossus on May 22nd 2019 at 1:45:35 AM