Sexism In Anime

@Karkat The Dalek

Anno was responding to "When told that the American audience favors Misato ..."

The topic was literally about Japan and American cultures and how they react to female characters from the start. It is entirely about if Japan is more misogynistic than America and if that misogyny is so ingrained that people can't even like "strong women" in their cartoons.

So I can point to Japan loving strong women in several different polls and Americans boycotting Lady Ghostbusters to show that, yes, misogyny is as much a problem here as in Japan as it pertains to how we react to media.

Edited by Nikkolas on Feb 12th 2020 at 7:18:38 AM

Alright, I do think this has gotten unnecessarily heated, so perhaps we should clear things up here. If the initial subject of the argument is about how Japanese people feel about strong female characters, I think that’s certainly a discussion we can have. I would propose, Nikkolas, that you and Anno might be thinking of something different when it comes to “strong women”.

Mind you, I haven’t actually seen NGE, so I can’t really comment on Rei’s character. I would like to put forth the idea, however, that Anno’s talking less about whether they can fight and more about their personalities.

Oh God! Natural light!

I think the Lady Ghostbuster was hated mostly because it suck and unfunny while masking it mediocre by saying people who hate it are misogyny, then use that as a marketing tool.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie

You were the one that brought America up in the first place. No one else has.

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

Nikkolas, what Japan imagines as a "strong" woman is very different than what you might think of as a strong woman

Edited by LeGarcon on Feb 12th 2020 at 10:36:10 AM

Oh really when?

And who could said what their version of a "strong" woman is worse than anyone else? There more than one type of strong female character. Not every strong female characters have to be an action hero

E.T technically is a Isekai movie

@ Karkat The Dalek

Well it is a core aspect of Rei's character that, despite being raised to be a pawn, she's quite strong and perceptive. She comes off as meek and quiet but she's anything but a brainless tool. At least once she gets to know Shinji, anyway. But even before that she wasn't dumb, she just lacked a reason to be more assertive and willful.

I don't think anyone who has seen NGE would say she is weak in terms of her personality is my point.

@ Dalek and Le Garcon

Alright, I can concede that. I think independent and brave are signs of a strong woman and both of those terms describe Rei but I won't deny some Japanese people might have other metrics they use.

I will just drop the whole extended argument and concede it because I didn't expect it to blow up and I don't want to argue anymore.

@Battle Raizer

Oh no, there was a lot of racism and sexism in there. The ringleader was notorious alt right shitlord Milo Yianopolus or however you spell it. Plenty of documented proof of this from what I can recall.

Edited by Nikkolas on Feb 12th 2020 at 7:46:30 AM

Isn't Sony also have a hand on it since they delete a lot of legit complain about the trailer while leave the racist and sexist one so that it would seem like people only hate this movie because they are racist and sexist? Then use that as a platform to advertise the movie. Of course there gonna be awful people in the crown, but Sony also help highlight these people to crop up their movie. And then there people attack a Youtuber who announced he won't see the movie and won't review it because he think the trailer is bad and it piggyback on the original movie success.

E.T technically is a Isekai movie

I will say I wonder if Anno was specifically thinking of the otaku crowd when he said that...

As for Ghostbusters, haven’t seen the movie, but regardless of quality, I do think there was some genuine misogyny there - enough to muddy the discourse. That said, this is a bit off topic for an anime thread.

Anyway, I suggest we move on - this conversation seems a bit confused and I get the impression we’re talking past each other a bit. Perhaps we should change the subject?

Um...how’s Shonen Jump doing in regards to female characters right now?

Oh God! Natural light!

How many Japanese message boards are you on, Nikkolas? How much Japanese social media do you frequent?

The Promised Neverland's headlining character is a a spunky young girl that basically a smarter version of a Stock Shonen Protagonist.

Watch Symphogear

Emma’s great, yeah. I love her. And Act-Age has Kei, who I also adore.

I wonder how we can evaluate the magazine as a whole, though...

Oh God! Natural light!

There's the afore mentioned Emma and Kei who are both great. The new manga undead unluck have a guy and a girl sharing the protagonist spot and she's pretty fun so far even if in a rather different way from Emma and Kei. It kind of helps that despite how she looks she kind of just accepts the insanity currently happening around her and has her own way of contributing even if she's not the smartest or strongest.

Heroine wise, I've heard good things about black clover's Noelle, MHA is still lacking on that front, Haikyuu doesn't focus on girls in general, I don't read harems so no comment on Yuuna and We needber learn

Edited by Mami on Feb 12th 2020 at 6:29:52 PM

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys

From what I follow…

• Act-age: Kei is great, obviously, but it also has plenty of interesting gals like Chiyoko, Arisa, Nanao or Hanako. Sure, Hanako and her stage play are themed on a Woman Scorned, which might sound a bit sexist, but the arc is more about ressentment and forgiveness in general so it works.
• Black Clover: On one hand, it has a ton of active female characters and Mereoleona is legendary… on the other hand, a lot of those girls are partly defined by their (usually one-sided) romantic atraction towards a male one. Though Noelle isn't limited to that at least.
• Chainsawman: Ooooh boy. Power. Makima. Power. Himeno. Power. Reze. And did I mention Power? So yeah, CSM's female cast is fucking golden. And no discrimation here: the girls can be just as brutal, crass and dumb as the guys.
• Dr. Stone: The series is a bit of a sausage fest, and the girls have a bad case of Only Six Faces, but the few prominent female characters are pretty active and independent, all in all.
• My Hero Academia: The female characters are great and diverse, they really are… too bad the author doesn't really do anything with them. Hopefully that will change with the current arc.
• Samurai 8: Perhaps the biggest sausage fest of all. I like An and I'm curious about that girl Key in the latest chapters, but that whole "Samurai/Princess" system is a bit iffy and I'm not sure where the author's going with that. That said, Daruma's master and Nanashi could bring some diversity… if they appeared in more than one or two chapters.
• Undead Unluck: This one's complicated. It doesn't bode well when the first chapter's cover features the male protagonist groping the female one's breast visibly against her will. At least Fuuko rapidly points out that, you know, consent is a thing… but there's still lots of ways this could go wrong considering her "power" activates with an intensity proportional to how long you touch her skin.
• We Never Learn: It's a harem romcom with a lot of the pitfalls that come with it, but as mentioned elswhere the girls have at least goals that fall outside of the "expected" female careers (astronomist, sports champion, doctor… and what was Rizu's goal again?) At least it doesn't share Nisekoi's tendency to tell us "guys/girls should do this or be like that".
• Yozakura Family: I like Mutsumi a lot for the way she casually deals with all the shit around her − it's a funny spin on the Damsel in Distress. Her sisters have great designs, personalities and abilities, but the story is a bit scattered and we don't see them that often. Hopefully the series is not axed.

Flippé de participer à ce grand souper, je veux juste m'occuper de taper mon propre tempo.

Good thing Seven Deadly Sins lowered the bar for everyone else.

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

x2The groping's toned down considerably after the first two chapters (if only because Andy switched gears into making her fall for him to get the same end point he wants). Now we get the same collateral damage with a little as a Chin hold

Honestly all things considered, I'm kind of impressed the series is less exploitative towards Fuuko than it initially seemed. Andy's the one who spends whole chapters completely butt naked.

edit: honestly I'm just waiting for the wholesome consensual banging upon which the whole world explodes

Edited by Mami on Feb 12th 2020 at 7:01:11 PM

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys

Abe does actualy, it's one of the reasons I am less harsh on him then the Amercians on the board even if I hate the LDP.... because Abe has acknowledged the sexisim issue and is actualy putting in a damned honest effort to fix it.

Things like encouraging us to join the work force, removing the sex restrictions on vehicle related positions in the SDF (sadly too late for my prior ambitions) and various other things.

Making women a more active part of society is a key pillar of his Abenomics bullshit... that I wont continue too much on since this isnt the Japanese politics thread.

Though when I woke up I realised that last night I forgot to mention, did you know until 2008 it was illegal for women to take IT courses? Because it was, and I was one of the first to do so.

Edit: Sorry for being 2 pages late, I was asleep.

Edited by Imca on Feb 12th 2020 at 2:36:56 AM

I know, but I'm not completely reassured. X)

Huh… I didn't know that… damn.

Flippé de participer à ce grand souper, je veux juste m'occuper de taper mon propre tempo.

Huh.

Sometimes bad people manage to do good things, though probably for bad reasons.

Don't know much about him, but if he's doing something useful, that can be acknowledged while still disliking any bad things he's done.

These past few years of Fairy Tail and other shit have made my love of fan service diminish, especially when it seems to come at the expense of the woman. Sexism in anime is a big issue, with some creators just unable or unwilling to do anything at all and for reasons that often amount to why not?

I've often referred to it as casual sexism, because they seem to do it just because it's what's been done before and give no thought as to why it would be an issue to others.

You gotta do something about this first: make them really put more thought into things.

...even fan service could probably be tastefully down with this in mind.

One Strip! One Strip!

Still remember that scene in Bakuman where an editor advises a female author who has only done Shoujo so far to draw panty shots to titilate male readers. I wonder how often that shit actually happens.

Flippé de participer à ce grand souper, je veux juste m'occuper de taper mon propre tempo.

My guess would be frequently.

One Strip! One Strip!

Probably because very few people are only bad or only good, regardless of how other people want to portray them for the purpose of their arguments.

Edited by AnotherDuck on Feb 12th 2020 at 2:31:30 PM

Check out my fanfiction!

Yeah the world isn't so black and white. Admittedly there are some people who are sore than others but, what was that trope again? even bad guys love their mama's? Basically.

As for the fanservice topic, I guess it depends how it's handled. When the affected party is all into the fanservice, it won't titilate me but it won't tilt me either. When it's against their will or involves them being degraded in a serious situation e.g. Tamaki from fire force, that's when I have a problem. Kill LA kill interestingly plays with this idea by having Ryuko be understandably embarrassed about her outfit at first, but one of her big scenes in the first half come from her accepting the clothes and deciding to have more pride in it.

I'm also mixed on the innocent fanservice girl trope because half the time it feels a tad exploitative

Edited by Mami on Feb 12th 2020 at 2:44:50 PM

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys

A tad?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

Lol, a tad?

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."