During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@papyru30: As I said in the EP, three of his victims are shown during the mission briefing. If you want, you can watch it here.
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh and the thing with Angelus is that he was Angel's original personality, not a Superpowered Evil Side. So yeah, aside from the possible heinousness issue, I'm not certain if Thanatos has 100% agency.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 8th 2019 at 10:48:16 AM
and Thanatos [[The End of the World as We Know It apocalyptic threat level is all but directly confirmed and the fics Voldemort is loyal to canon.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Abstain on Thanatos.
RIP KissAnime.
I'm leaning ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the Censor. As vile as he is, he doesn't really stand out in terms of heinousness, especially when this series has nutjobs like Oybek Nabazov and the rest of his cult.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on Nov 8th 2019 at 4:48:46 AM
He's just a Expy Mr. Madcrow
The wifi here sucks
Censor, echoing Dragonfire's reasoning
and if Harry has agency, Thanatos has too.
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Censor. Abstaining on Thanatos until more info, leaning
@dragonfire5000 Have you take the resources into account? Nabazov had a cult of brainwashed followers, received a large sum of money from an unknown source and has a mad scientist who helped him create a killer virus.
The Censor is just one guy.
Don’t get me wrong, if you don’t think he counts that’s fine. I just believe it’s unfair to compare him to someone who had a lot more resources.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Nay to Censor before I forget.
RIP KissAnime.
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
Changing to Censor. That was some fast mind-changing I just did.
Yes, I did take resources into account. And he still doesn't really stand out to me. Heck, the Angel of Death comes across as bad, if not worse, than he is.
Edited by dragonfire5000 on Nov 8th 2019 at 4:52:46 AM
@dragonfire5000 The Angel of Death’s crime are off-screen. So they aren't added to the overall heinous standard.
Abstain on Censor and Thanatos for now
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
the Censor
Abstain on both (Censor & Thanatos)
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 8th 2019 at 5:41:49 AM
x4 My understanding is that the Censor's crimes are also committed offscreen and only found out through secondhand knowledge, unless there's a victim he's in the middle of or finished brutalizing that you can find in-game. Or are we using some other definition of "offscreen?"
I brought up Etta Davis precisely because this thread ruled that she didn't count; she has a higher body count and does not seem to have significantly higher resources than the Censor, so she still comes across equally or more heinous than him. And I still think neither of them really stand out compared to the other horror shows in this series.
So, having said my piece, I'm maintaining my . This is the last I'll speak about this particular candidate; I'll let the others on this thread vote.
Hey Irrose, I do have a question about Outer Worlds. Would you consider Graham, the Iconoclast leader, as anywhere close to this trope? He orchestrates the slaughter of Amber Heights to get rid of competition, organizes the attack and razing of Stellar Bay if you help him, and treats his own people as expendable resources. I know the game talks a lot about his guilt over Amber Heights, but his actions seem to suggest it's more his ego talking. Do you think his guilt is genuine and disqualifies him?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Showtime!
@dragonfire5000: You can see the corpses of three of his victims in the mission briefing. The mission briefing I linked earlier. It’s made clear that these people are his victims. If you see death people on-screen it’s no longer off-screen.
Xian, Barkov, Kingsley, Narcissa, Thanatos, Isaac, Palmer and Judd
Bloodman
Abstain on Censor
Alright, this was my last EP.
I put time and effort in this, took notes, replayed the game and watched several videos only for the EP to get rejected because a cult leader with a killer virus can be compared to a lone serial killer and because suddenly it’s not enough to show the corpse but you also have to see the candidate actually stabbing them which goes against everything established here.
This is just frustrating. I’ve reached a point where it believe it’s simply no longer worth my time. So goodbye everyone.I'm leaving and I'll try not to let the door hit me.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
If we see Corpses then that's enough for it to Qualify as onscreen.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Yes, he does have the same sins, and there was another argument.