During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
-Bump-
Once again, a minor edit war on the Western Animation regarding Mr Krabs. Does he qualify?
edited 13th Mar '11 12:32:57 AM by Vox
Mr. Krabbs is not a complete monster. No. Just... No. He's shown in a sympathetic light all the time, he has affection for Spongebob, he has a daughter whom he loves, his motives aren't evil, and everything is Played for Laughs. There's Complete Monster over here, and then there's Mr. Krabbs waaaay over there.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
WolfMan16's reasons for re-adding him after I deleted his entry:
So apparently "people like me" just CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH about Krabs. Is this adequate justification?
edited 13th Mar '11 3:34:53 AM by Vox
No.
The "monstrous traits" referred to in the discussion are just a list of bad things he's done.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Looks like somebody read the title and figured they knew what the trope was supposed to be from that alone.
Humans disturb him
Hey I didn't know, I just thought that after this became a YMMV trope, adding it back in wouldn't be a problem. Plus, nobody has deleted it in a long time and nobody responded back to my post on the discussions page. About Vox deleting it and me adding it back in was because I thought he didn't notice this became YMMV. Could someone actually notice me positively and respond back to my other post? Also, there is no reason to be rude to me Vox. Also, if he doesn't count, why hasn't somebody deleted it before? You have to delete beforehand so I won't be mistaken next time.
edited 13th Mar '11 11:59:48 PM by WolfMan16
Some folks on the Internet think they're a special GIFT to the world, and others aren't. In this perspective, they're kind of right.
How exactly was I rude to you?
And people have deleted it in the past many times, but he keeps getting re-added nonetheless.
"Looks like somebody read the title and figured they knew what the trope was supposed to be from that alone."
This. Just... this. Obviously people who add such mild villains as Krabs do not even pay attention to the criteria.
Ravenous Sophovore
Don't tell me you're surprised by that. That's the number one cause of misuse on the wiki.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I never said I was.
Humans disturb him
If everybody now claims he truly isn't a monster, including myself, then why hasn't anybody deleted the entry within the past month when it first got added in? Now it seems as though everybody believes I don't even understand what a Complete Monster is at all. Once it finally did get deleted, everybody finally starts saying he doesn't belong here. Don't get me wrong, I finally see he isn't a monster as well. Also, what's the point of harshly calling me "sonny jim" over one mistake?
edited 15th Mar '11 12:39:52 PM by WolfMan16
Some folks on the Internet think they're a special GIFT to the world, and others aren't. In this perspective, they're kind of right.It was deleted. Somebody added it back. We don't all add every page to our watchlist.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
... You seriously consider "sonny jim", to be harshly insulting?
IIRC there was some remark in some earlier CM thread about how "a complete monster is supposed to be [insert name of obvious example here], not some disney villain who kicks puppies." (Yes, I used the insert name thing because I forget which example was used.
I think this is what needs to be stressed more often. While Complete Monster obviously applies to some Disney villains as well, (Hopper and Sykes being especially clear cases of this) the point is that the label is more for villains like Captain Vidal or Red Skull than for cartoony supervillains.
Humans disturb him
Is Glenn Quagmire an example of a Complete Monster? A user named Super Saiya Man added him in. I'm not sure if he counts as an example, since he was resposible for adding Mr. Krabs and Blaineley in the past. All of those candidates didn't count either, so I doubt Quagmire counts.
edited 25th Apr '11 7:39:21 PM by WolfMan16
Some folks on the Internet think they're a special GIFT to the world, and others aren't. In this perspective, they're kind of right.
I see the Awesomeness.
I don't think he does. I think one of the rules is that the character can't be played for comedy, which Glenn was.
Fight smart, not fair.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Plus, his infamous rant about Brian was a clear case of Even Evil Has Standards, which Complete Monsters just don't do.
What's precedent ever done for us?
The description says lesser Complete Monsters can have standards in comparison to worse Complete Monsters, something that the Even Evil Has Standards page image (Joker distancing himself from Red Skull) is an example of.
Also, the second criterion seems to be vague, if not a mess of several criteria, but it doesn't rule out a Complete Monster being Played for Laughs.
That said, I'd be inclined to exempt Quagmire from CM status if only because his most heinous evil deeds are just implied, and he doesn't seem to realize just how wrong they are.
Is this done? If not, should it be Special Efforts instead of TRS?
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Special Efforts seems like a good place for it. Complete Monster is one of those tropes that requires constant attention.
I'm going to holler about having this moved then. I think it'll fit better there as this is a long term ongoing project not a one time lockable thing.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Moved as requested
Bigfoot Puncher
I was wondering if a character counts as a Complete Monster if they do feel remorse, but not of their own free will, but rather because they are brainwashed and tortured until they finally feel sorry.
A fistful of me.
This thread expired after 60 days of inactivity.