During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Can't recall voting but I'll throw in a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Alvin, Venom, Shadow King and Miller.
Leaning a cautious cut to Dickson.
IPP Wick Check created.
Showtime!
mu
to pretoris
Edited by Demonlordbelial on Jan 10th 2022 at 12:31:20 PM
The Emperor of Evil!
to The Miller and Pretorius, I say propose Doc Ock, not sure if Kingpin is bad enough but I'll be willing to hear him out.
Why was Mad Technician rejected? I wasn't there when it happened.
Gonna abstain on Dickson, don't know too much about the game and seeing the clip I'm personally having mixed feelings about it.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jan 10th 2022 at 10:33:59 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Professor
I'm abstaining on Dickson because I don't see his death being played tragically. The respect bit might be mitigating but he says it after they've gone and he faked not being fatally wounded for his pride?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I proposed him over a year ago:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=8666
Yes to Scraggle’s and Overlord’s. I’m a hard cut for Dickson and I think it’s quite clear what the writers were going for in his death scene. We’ve still got two great ones in the God of Evil himself and Metal man.
I’ll look into Sora later. What’s the dealio there?
Sora is defeated looking at the sky and telling the hero "All yours" in addition to the hero saying he might be able to overcome who he is now and be reborn later to him. Final chapters.
Lizzid people!
Yeah, that's a cut.
Professor Gigachad
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
The Emperor of Evil!
Okay, cut Sora then.
Definite cut, thanks for the info Lighty!
Cut Dickson. Always felt very iffy on him and am glad to see him go.
Miller & Pretorius
Cut Dickson & Sora
Blazing Larvesta
I knew about Dickson's death scene before seeing him on the page, and honestly, seeing him on there with that knowledge did make his presence seem off. Gonna throw a to cutting Dickson.
is there a particular reason Gruntilda hasn't been discussed much? I found some passing mention from some 6 years ago, but not much besides that.
Her pretty old character page already has all the hallmarks of a Complete Monster, only with a questionable YMMV quip saying "she would be a monster if from a more serious game."
Edited by Sung-Hwan on Jan 10th 2022 at 9:59:41 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Yeah, as someone who loved the series growing up, she’s too Played for Laughs overall.
Yeah, that's a clear no.
Not only is she completely comedic, but her crimes are just standard kids fare.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I only played the first one. My mistake
Edited by nwotyzal on Jan 10th 2022 at 10:26:27 AM
Professor Gigachad
Is she? I have heard her crimes are quite bad on paper. Either way, I do agree that she doesn't count, way too comedic.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 10th 2022 at 10:25:34 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I'd actually contest her actions in Banjo-Tooie cross the heinous standard, but yeah, the games are comedy—crude British comedies, at that. Gruntilda is a walking joke.
Woagh
Cut Dickson and Sora.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Professor Gigachad
The Professor, forgot to vote on that.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 10th 2022 at 10:59:51 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
I took a look at Dickson's death and truthfully I am really seeing it is mitigating like not only is it presented in an incredibly sad way but it seems he still holds on to some lingering respect for Shulk. I am officially vouching for a cut.
If you want to you can take a look it the death scene here
.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jan 10th 2022 at 7:17:06 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes