Invader Zim

Yeah, that could apply to both, honestly. It's honestly a stretch to call a kid character irredeemable, especially considering the kind of situation they're in.

Plus, I just think some of Dib's misfortune goes beyond what he actually deserves.

In the early days of the show, when Dib was more of an asshole and somewhat villainous, he got what he deserved and some of his misfortunes were outright karmic.

The show quickly transitioned that to the more gag of Dib being the only sane man who clearly doesn’t the deserve misfortune and disrespect he gets, but gets it in excess anyway because comic irony. In the recent comic run (and probably the movie, since it’s partially based on them) Dib is practically a walking Being Good Sucks gag.

Wait, "somewhat villainous"? What did he do that was so bad?

If I recall correctly Dib would draw pictures of himself or someone else dissecting Zim which can be viewed as villainous and kind of disturbing in a sense for a kid his age. I don't recall anything beyond that tho in the early days.

Invader ZIM voice actor Richard Horvitz has confirmed at Atlanta Comic-Con that Netflix will debut Invader Zim: Enter The Florpus in August 2019!

I want to see and how much it change, in general Invader zim does seen like pretty much a 2000 cartoon and I dont know it will fly today.

Dib is antagonistic. In the sense that he opposes the protagonist, Zim.

Hero Antagonist and Villain Protagonist are tropes that exist for a reason.

As I said, he's nastier in the earliest parts in the show and then quickly transitions into a more standard Hero Antagonist. Early installment Dib is a very troubled kid, and he's written more like a bully who happens to be right than a hero.

His more well known "dedicated to truth and saving humanity, even if for some selfish reasons, to the point where he'd sacrifice life and dignity for others" characterization didn't start until the show was already underway. His initial characterization is best summed up as "just because they're out to get you, doesn't mean you're not crazy."

Granted, it's a response to a comment made nearly a year ago.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 14th 2019 at 9:52:53 AM

Announcement necros always get me.

How's this for an announcement necro:

Enter the Florpus hits Netflix on August 16!

Laugh with Zim!

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jul 23rd 2019 at 2:01:42 PM

Another example of Dib being a dick is that one episode where he, Zim, and the rest of their class has to go door-to-door selling candy. At one point he goes up to Zim and says "the only reason I'm selling this dirt in a wrapper is because I wanna watch you fail at something else". Like wow, petty much?

I generally like watching Zim win more

That's not petty, you generally don't want alien overlords to win...

I mean, yes.

At selling candy though?

Selling candy sucked, but only few people care about that.

Obviously Dib wanted to experience Zim's failure.

The bit that always makes me think that early Dib wasn't the best guy is the Rubber Piggy episode, where we find that Dib spend much of his time before Zim came along seeking out and harassing supernatural but otherwise normal creatures who just wanted to be left alone. Zim's the first one he met that was malevolent, but he pursued others just as relentlessly, which puts his instant antagonism with Zim in a somewhat different light.

But eventually that aspect of his character was filed off, so it's just Early-Installment Weirdness. One thing I like about Dib now is that he's equal parts narcissist and hero, and is a rare example of a character where neither part of him really outweighs the other.

When you have a Villain Protagonist facing off against a Hero Antagonist, it's good for that antagonist to have a few unpleasant flaws. End of the day, the audience is meant to be rooting for your villain in this story, so if you make the hero too likable, it can screw up the audience's investment priorities.

Thus, Dib. Between Zim and Dib, Dib is the character who's in the right, so to speak. It's in the planet Earth's best interest for him to prevail. But Dib's also kind of a shithead while Zim's hilarious and charismatic, so it's easy to root for Zim against Dib knowing full well that Dib's the Good Guy.

If you can get your viewers to go, "I know he deserves to win, but I kinda want to see him get f*cked," then you have crafted your Hero Antagonist well.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 28th 2019 at 10:45:29 AM

That's an unfortunate mindset to "have" to adhere to.

It's kind of like Death Note in that sense. On one hand, you want L to win the feud because it's the morally right decision. On the other, you want Light to win because he's the protagonist and the audience wants to see what sort of crazy shit he comes up with next.

I never wanted Light to win. I just hated him and his smug face and wanted him to die as quickly as possible. That's why I couldn't finish Death Note.

That seems accurate to what was said.

To be fair to Dib. He is a young kid with a not so great homelife whom is also bullied both at school and at home. Him being a bit narcissitic is pretty expected for a younger kid and him being a little shit is not to surprising considering that is pretty much how everyone else in the show is barring Zim whom is more of an laughable destructive loser.

Funnily enough Zim is pretty much the Dib of his own homeworld considering how destructive they both can be and how they are both social outcasts.

Another thing to point out is when Zim does on occasion have a stroke of competence he can be flat out terrifying villian if not monstrous. Dark Harvest for example or the few times he experimented on humans (Keef getting his eyes literally ripped out, the Squid Man, that forced to be happy kid) or the one time Zim got his hands on a giant mech. That's what Dib is fighting against.

To expect a young kid to be mentally and morally sound in the world he lives in against someone whom can destroy everything in a blink of an eye? Especially when it seems like whole world seems to be trying to getting themselves killed by Irk and other random threats? I don't think it would be easy to not get warped from all that.

Edited by Wispy on Jul 29th 2019 at 5:34:41 AM

Ooh, you should read the manga.

The anime director agreed with Light, so he made Light's death tragic and dignified and shit.

But in the original manga, Light's death is humiliating and cathartic. It's very satisfying after tolerating his bullshit for so long. Even Ryuk practically dances on his grave to his face because watching him melt down is so funny.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 29th 2019 at 6:55:12 AM

Everything and everyone in Invader Zim is terrible. Dib is just the big-headed kid trying to save the stupid, terrible humans from the stupid, terrible aliens and prove himself right.

Yep, I was talking about the manga.

I stopped reading after L's death, and skipped right to the end to see Light die like the little shit that he was. Very satisfying.

You weren't talking about the manga, you didn't even mention it.