Final Fantasy general

Yeah I mean ARPG also means different things to different people. I've seen it mean anything from "any action game with RPG elements" to "any JRPG with real time combat" to "Diablo-like isometric dungeon looters only" to "any game with RPG elements and real time combat". In any of these, the scope of possible games included is massive and many of them have only one playable character.

Look there's two different points that are getting conflated here.

Few people will say you can't have a game like this with just one playable character.

The issue is that said character is Clive and he hasn't set the world on fire yet. (Ironic considering he's Ifrit.)

Even Jack got a strong reaction out of people. Granted, that reaction was uproarious laughter, but still.

It IS too early to judge but not too early to be a bit worried.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Jun 22nd 2022 at 5:32:58 PM

Tbf people seem to have come around to Jack. Like he's now considered pretty great either ironically or unironically.

We literally had someone on the last page saying multiple playable characters was important to an action rpg lol.

But no, I don't expect that's an opinion everyone else shares.

Yeah, and maybe Clive will Win The Crowd too. Ironically I think that'll be harder thanks to Jack, since he seems to fill the exact same niche. But we'll see.

Draghinazzo mentioned it's not fair to compare him to 2B since she had an eye-catching design which... Yeah. That's the point. Of designing someone to be eye-catching. Real "It's not fair you beat me because you're better at the game then me" energy.

Honestly, the fact that Jack has such a generic design is what made him stand out.

It's like Nomura went " Okay, fuck it, you don't like my designs? Well here's a guy. A regular guy in a t-shirt and jeans."

Aya Brea pulled it off first.

I keep thinking timeskip!Clive is invoking Bare Your Midriff but it's just because I'm colorblind. They could totally make him a thirst trap too if they tried. Remember when they de-sexified the hero of FF Mobius? A dark day.

EDIT: Never mind.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jun 22nd 2022 at 3:15:41 PM

Aya pulled off what was basically average modern day America wear, basically. She was great before 3rd Birthday fuckin ruined her.

2B got so much attention because ooh, look, it's a conventionally attractive woman, with large breasts and a form-fitting outfit and stuff.

Like. I'm pretty sure that was the reason.

Gonna be very pedantic and point out that it was not 2B’s breasts that got everyone’s attention.

Well, they didn't hurt either.

But more saliently, I'm not sure why the MC's design not wowing people is supposed to be a big blow against it. For starters, would a generic anime-styled teenager with a colorful hairdo have been any different? Not only are those pretty played out in their own right, but it would clash hard against the tone and aesthetic of XVI. It's a grittier, relatively more down to earth and character-driven game, I don't think many designs would be both immediately eye-catching and fit the game's vibe unless it was a hot girl or a Guts clone.

Also, Jack's appeal was a combination of his design, personality and the very memeable trailers and baffling tone, I'd wager. Don't get me wrong, I'm a mission and a half away from finishing SOP and I love the guy, but Jack and Clive are realistic/simplistic in very different ways. One of them is the tortured hero of a dark fantasy story, the other looks like an escapee from a mid-budget Hollywood action flick got lost and ended up in JRPG land.

Edited by Ninety on Jun 22nd 2022 at 11:40:05 AM

I mean A, boiling 2B's appeal to just her sex appeal does her a disservice, even if we're just talking visually.

B, there are a lot of scantily clad women running around in gaming so you can't say just that was it.

C, what the hell's wrong with that anyway?

If it was generic in a different direction it would still be generic. We've seen characters that look like Clive. We've seen characters that act like Clive. We've seen characters that sound like Clive. So unless they're hiding something from us (Which they might very well be) I'm not really interested in following his story so far.

EDIT: Like, I'm surprised I'm really annoyed by that argument actually. "He's a gritty tough guy! You want him to be a shonen protag?" like GAH. There's a million way to make your protagonist stand out! Visual design, personality through dialogue, species, attitude... THIS ISN'T A BINARY! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Edited by ShirowShirow on Jun 22nd 2022 at 7:03:48 PM

I think one of the strengths of Jack is that he sometimes tapped into "this is what I wish someone would have done" territory, like when he tells the dark elf guy he doesn't give a shit about his monologue and to just get to the point already. That scene is pretty enjoyable but I don't think it's for the reasons SE intended it to be. Much like the rest of So P's story and characterization.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jun 22nd 2022 at 4:15:32 PM

I think what got people's goat, was the assumption that the sex appeal was the only thing that made 2B stand out. It was very reductive.

Yes, the nerds on the internet made a big deal out of her being unreservedly fanservice-y, but that's not the only reason people liked her. Personally, Even leaving aside the fanservice elements, I thought 2B looked straight-up cool. I honest really liked the way the dress was seemingly designed to look elegant and sophisticated, and the way it contrasted with her blind and bearing.

Edited by PhoenixAct on Jun 22nd 2022 at 8:16:13 PM

Yeah, that's a fair point. Yoshida can be questionable (still not sure about those assless chaps from Ashley Riot or various other design choices in FFXII) but he's a great artist nonetheless. I was honestly pretty hyped for him to be on the game since I've been a fan of his work for years now. If you were a Nier fan at the time the staff that went onto make that game seemed like someone's pipe dream lol

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jun 22nd 2022 at 4:25:45 PM

Memorable character designs stand the test of time. People remember 2B, Tidus and Lulu.

Hell people remember Vaan... in a bad way but they remember his chainmail that is 5 sizes to small.

Edited by Memers on Jun 22nd 2022 at 6:53:32 AM

I actually finished Episode Intermission after putting it off for a year.

• I like that they actually made Nero threatening despite still looking dumb, he really gives off some “Horror Movie Villian” vibes. Also his boss theme rules, especially phases 2 and 3.
• It will be very interesting to see how exactly Deepground will factor into the rest of the Remake Trilogy seeing as Nero takes Sonon’s body it will be interesting to see if Shelke and Shalua show up at least.
• I really do hope the whole synergy mechanic is something the whole party can do in Rebirth, that was fun.
• Given how the episode ends, I wonder if Zack is gonna straight up be the secondary protagonist of Rebirth, where we follow him figuring out just what the hell happened. Maybe he teams up with the Avalanche crew?

Anyways, really enjoyable dlc

Edited by dmysta3000 on Jun 23rd 2022 at 12:59:46 PM

Some more stuff from the XVI interviews I missed

• They we’re actually considering on doing a PS 4 version of the game around the time it was announced but ultimately decided against it when they realized that would end up taking more development time and didn’t want to scale things back so the game could actually run on last gen hardware
• They initially planned to show off the trailer in May but delayed it seeing as the whole mess in Ukraine was starting and felt uncomfortable showing off a game about war when that was going on.

So I finally beat Stranger of Paradise. My thoughts on it are... well. It's, by any objective measure, a very flawed game. The visuals are decent at best and headache-inducing at worst, the music is mostly just fine with a few standout tracks, the story is convoluted and messy and at times laughable and only half intentionally so. But I haven't had this much fun playing a game in a while. The combat isn't perfect, but when it clicks, man, you spend hours on it and barely notice the time flying by. I don't think I've played a game that balances the "action" and "RPG" sides of the equation this well before — every single fight feels like you can beat it just by pure mechanical skill, but also that you can trivialize it if you just find the right build and loadout, and it's hard enough (I first played on Action then on Hard after a few missions) that you need to bring your A game to both. I felt that the loot system (particularly the obnoxious "your equipment must be this level or higher or else you'll get broken by a goblin passing gas" mechanic) didn't add much to the formula, and the lack of hitstun on normal attacks never sat right by me, but aside from that, it's incredibly good. The ease with which you can switch your build on the fly and are encouraged to try out new combos and strategies is extremely engaging, and revisiting jobs I had completely written off because they turned out to be the exact answer to a given encounter is so satisfying.

I was also pleasantly surprised by the level design, with a caveat. The early missions (the ones in the demo) are pretty bland in that regard, but as you progress there's quite a few missions with pretty interesting interconnecting and looping levels which would be outright great if it weren't for the extreme asset reuse leading to such levels becoming veritable mazes. You can really feel the budget constraints here, because some levels get so samey that it's damn near impossible to tell where you came from and where you're supposed to go (especially after grueling fights) that the only real way is through process of elimination. I don't know if this is the sort of game that might ever get a sequel (a spiritual successor, maybe), but if it does I hope they can put some work into that.

The story and characters, well, there's only two characters with any real depth and a lot of the plot and lore is told through text infodumps here and there, and all that needs to be said has already about the cheesy edginess and just how much of it is intentionally comical (the answer for me is... more than half? I feel the extent to which the devs were pouring their hearts into what they thought was cool but ended up ridiculous is pretty overstated). And yet when it started coming together in the last few missions it worked for me. The gut punch in the penultimate mission really did land, and the ending even got me watery-eyed, though using Frank Sinatra's My Way at that point was cheating.

On the whole, it feels like a game made on a shoestring budget, with some great ideas, seesawing implementation and a lot of heart put into it. I put fifty-something hours into it just through replaying missions and trying out builds and upping the difficulty. I don't think it'll end up in anyone's top ten, but I had an absolute blast with it and hope it might become something of a cult classic.

The next new character for the Japanese version of DFFOO is Neon from SoP.

Yeah at this point, I don't expect to see Emet-Selch or Zenos anytime soon.

Zenos can stay out, I don't like him :p

Seems he's not your amigo from Ala Mhigo.

Zeromus can be added because he is a very deep character with a tragic backstory probably.