Final Fantasy general

Well with a cast that big I argue the characters should be judged by cluster and groups, not individually.

Suikoden 3 has much bigger cast herds that all play off each other really well. They're still not as well developed as the best RPG's otherwise by virtue of there being so many, but they do a pretty admirable job characterizing most of them through optional content otherwise.

I admit that's the only one I grew up playing so I'm biased, but I think 3 is the best over all at at least utilizing it's stupidly huge cast. Better than 2 and miles better than the nothing Cross does with all of them.

Edited by Hashil on Mar 13th 2020 at 8:38:45 AM

It's not impossible to do large casts well enough, there's plenty of books and tv shows that do so, it's just that most JRPG's that tried have failed to get it just right. FFT is another example where most of the cast is pretty thinly written and it mostly gets by with having an interesting plot.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Mar 13th 2020 at 10:43:04 AM

When a cast is really big, the interplay between characters that are part of a group are more important than each individual in that group, and that is what should be judged.

But that's just my take on it.

I disagree with Tactics handling its large cast well. They each have time to shine for a bit... up until they join your party. After that they're non-entities outside one or two scenes in the original game, and about as many added to the remake. Tactics Ogre by a lot of the same people does a slightly better job of it, but only slightly, and I can't really blame either since any one of those characters could drop dead at any moment... but it's still not ideal.

I don't think anyone said Tactics handled it well. Those are the problems I was getting at when I said that most of the FFT cast is thinly written, but maybe I should have been more specific.

Not really. He pushed some statues around and became OP because of it. Hardly a grand master plan considering most everything else was Gestahl's scheming.

Fire Emblem, especially later entries, handle larger casts better then Tactics due to the supports system (Three houses, the newest one, has some of the best supports in the franchise to date).

As for other JRPG antagonists, the Tales of series in general tends to have really good ones, with some exceptions. "Cough Cough Zestiria Cough Cough".

Yeah, if Chrono Cross had a support system, that game would be borderline perfect.

There are few games that couldn't benefit from something like the support system.

There are plenty of Final Fantasy games where a lot of the cast isn't really allowed to directly interact with each other, needing the protagonist to be there as an intermediary most of the time. There are exceptions in all the games that do that of course but having dedicated "Hey, X and Y are having a conversation." scenes allows for tons of creative writing.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Mar 15th 2020 at 4:01:28 AM

Half the reason to play Tales games is the skits.

"Here, have a random scene where the party reacts to finding a healing item in a toilet."

I think XII would have been so much better if the party was chatting while walking around. Would have been a great method to introduce more lore and characterisation. I can imagine Vaan asking so many awkward questions.

Dragon Quest VIII and XI really did party chats the best. Just hit select and chat with them and XIS just talk to them on the field for the same lines.

The Active Time Events from IX were a decent attempt at showing party members interacting separate from Zidane and the main plot. Even though IX is pretty bad about characters dropping Out of Focus once their personal quest/arc is over, the AT Es still gave party members opportunities to have some screen-time throughout the game. Just seeing the party members do stuff around town without Zidane really helped flesh them out even when the main plot was totally ignoring them.

Bravely Default and Second did really good job at character interaction as well. The main characters you control are more or less have an equal role in the story even if one or two characters are arguably the main character.

Yeah but Bravely Default (Which is an amazing game everyone should play) sidesteps the problem that kickstarted the discussion by having a small, manageable party.

So keep the cast small basically.

Small casts are safe casts. I like them larger so that we can get some odd ball designs or archetypes.

Between two and three full parties worth is the sweet spot for me.

There should be a balance between the number of party members and how much time and effort you put into each. Too small and you get FFXV's Chocobros. Too numerous and you get Chrono Cross' bottom of the barrel crap like fucking Poshul and that mushroom guy.

Edited by M84 on Mar 16th 2020 at 12:13:05 AM

I'm a fan of 3-4 party slots with 7-8 total members. I think that's about the sweet spot for letting everyone get developed.

Although a bigger thing for me is the game either forcing you into using characters i.e half the party leaves for a few hours due to story reasons. This is particularly important when you get a new character - otherwise sometimes I'm reluctant to learn a new play style if what I'm already doing is working.

Or leveling/gameplay mechanics that encourage rotating your party members.

They also have to have leaked experience. I don't really appreciate being forced to switch out my party members to keep them all even.

FFX did manage it well enough since every party member was tailored to fight particular foes. Meaning simply progressing normally and switching them out to deal with their particular foe would mean that your party would mostly be leveling properly.

Except Kimahri. Because nobody uses Kimahri. Though I guess he's useful if you make him go down Rikku's path since you don't get her back for a while.

Edited by M84 on Mar 16th 2020 at 12:34:08 AM

I know declare that everyone should try to win with only Kimahri.

I like how Skies of Arcadia handled its party: 3 mainstays, with a rotating 4th spot, for a total of 6 characters, all of whom got an equal amount of screentime and plot relevance.

Edited by Primis on Mar 15th 2020 at 9:52:13 AM

SE just put out part one of a Making of VIIR video series

"During the 25th anniversary, we wanted to start thinking about what was good for the future of Final Fantasy."

"So we decided to spend the next decade milking our most popular game's teats dry again. That's our future, doubling down on nostalgia."